The Thessalonian passage I believe also carries with it some strong cultural connotations. Everyone did not work like we work jobs in our culture. It may well have been that Paul was addressing some who were supported by underwriters for their crafts and that carried with it all kinds of obligations to the benefactor, especially if you were an artisan. Your supporter could make all kinds of "demands" on you to continue to receive their favor. Paul and the apostles could "demand" being taken care of by the church as their benfactors, but did not. They paid their own way. Paul is admonishing that those are disorderly if they are now , after the first warnings in the first letter, still continuing in a client status with a benefactor. Therefore these, who are now idle without a patron were being disobedient. Patonage usually lasted for life, unless one angered the patron. Joe On Oct 24, 2006, at 4:17 PM, John Reisinger wrote: > Moe: This is another example of hermeneutics. Government, by its very > nature and by God's ordination,is to protect and care for its > citizens. I think most people would assume that "caring for" would > include a soup kitchen during depression or a time of a disaster. > JGR >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Moe Bergeron >> To: soundofgrace@... >> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 12:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] NCT and Politics >> >> >> On 10/23/06, Someone wrote: >> "But my observation has been that when government takes on the task >> of feeding the hungry ( a mandate BTW which God has never assigned to >> civil government) it always ends up feeding those whom God says >> should NOT eat! i.e. those who will not work! See II Thessalonians >> 3:10." >> >> Moe - thinking out loud: >> Governments are use of God to bring judgement to those peoples within >> and without of their respective borders. There is no biblical mandate >> stating they may or may not redistribute the wealth of those >> governed. I've heard it said that the world's governments put the >> churches of Christ to shame when it comes to generosity. >> >> 2Thess 3:10 is addressed to the church and not to the nations. >> >> 3:10 For even when we were with you we used to give you this command: >> "If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat." 3:11 For >> we hear that some among you are living an undisciplined life, not >> doing their own work but meddling in the work of others. 3:12 Now >> such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to work >> quietly and so provide their own food to eat. 3:13 But you, brothers >> and sisters, do not grow weary in doing what is right. 3:14 But if >> anyone does not obey our message through this letter, take note of >> him and do not associate closely with him, so that he may be ashamed. >> 3:15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a >> brother. >> >> moe >> >> > > > -- > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > To unsubsc > ribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > To view o > ur online archive go to our web page at > http://www.associate.com/groups/soun > dofgrace > > > > > >