Jeff,
Take note, you are hearing it from one of "those". We do not appeal to it "more than the bible". Since this has now been clearified, I would believe you would change your ideas about how the reformed look upon the document? Puritan Board is made up of people who ascribe to either the WCF or the BCF, none appeal to it more than the bible. We have almost 500 members (worldwide).

Jeff Thomas <thomas64@...> wrote:
Yet, what we find in those who hold to the WCF. They quote it and appeal to it as authority more than they do the Bible. 

Scott Paul Bushey wrote:Steve,
I fear you have failed to understand what I have said. The reformers put together all the major tenets of the Christian faith into a concise document so that one could efficiently access their belief system (based of course, scripture alone), in the case one would need to expound upon what they saw the bible to say. 

You agree that we (believers) do not a gree on secondary issues-no? The WCF is an efficient way of showing that which WE do hold to. 

Steve wrote:
Scott:

You itemize purchases on a credit card statement, also checking accounts.
If Christianity is little more than a devotional or creedal checklist that
you itemize to determine your soundness, you have missed the heart of faith,
that is, personal union and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Creeds and
confessions are good as a guideline, but they are not the object of faith or
practice. I fear that many have failed to see this.

Steve C.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Paul Bushey" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Membership on PuritanBoard.com - Be honest, now.


> OK Jeff,
> based upon what you have concluded
>
> This topic was spawned off the idea that PB uses creeds. We use the WCF
to -itemize- thoughts that are solely biblical.
>
> Jeff Thomas wrote:
>
> The Bible is my standard by which I judge everything. I don't judge
someone based a flaw WCF or 1689, 1644, or 310 creeds.
>
> S: I don't know anyone who -judges- anyone based upon the WCF etc. The
bible is also OUR standard by which we judge. Again, The WCF is used as a
statement of faith. It helps explain what the Presbyterian community
believes the bible to say. Asking that people who join Puritan Board
acknowledge the embracing of this creed only implies that we want
like-minded people. So, is this clear? Can we move past this idea.
>
> J: I didn't say I didn't use them. I don't elevate the WCF as so many do.
>
> S: Who does this? I don't know anyone who does this!
>
>
>
> J: My standard for fellowship is the Bible...the Bible alone.
>
> S: But you do use the creeds. You just admitted that. Do you have a
library? Do you ever quote any historian?
>
> Scott Paul Bushey wrote:Jeff,
> The creeds are not exalted above the scriptures, they just summarize the
main ideas. Again, it's used as a statement of what we believe. I suppose
you do not use any study material BUT the bible???
>
> Jeff Thomas wrote:
> My creed is the Bible. I have no creed but the Bible.
>
> Scott Paul Bushey wrote:Jeff,
> Are you a pastor? You mention "members". If you are a pastor, you have no
consistant article that is able to reflect that which you embrace as well as
what your church body believes the scriptures to expound? How can this be
consistant? Is it not important for the church to be on the same page?
>
> Again I state, the creeds are just a concise agreement between men in
rgerads to what certain men believ the scriptures to state.
>
> You say you will (just) use the bible............How long will it take for
you to address every issue about God using the bible? It is much quicker to
use the creeds and the attached scripture references to access the
information.
>
> Jeff Thomas wrote:
> Scott, I simply ask new members what they believe about the Bible and
instruct them in it. I do not need a man-made creed, I'll use a God given
Bible.
>
> Jeff
>
> Scott Paul Bushey wrote:
> Nancy,
> First of all, we are not a church, hence, we do not function as such, i.e.
we have no pastors, elders or leadership.
>
> Why do you hate the creeds. Does not your church have a statement of faith
that they use to introduce newcomers to what they believe the scriptures to
say? Why is this a bad thing? The WCF or BCf of 1689 are just that,
statements of our faith.
>
> Nancy Newcomb wrote:
> Hi Terry,
>
> I have been reading the posts on this subject, and I noticed that you
> mentioned that you personally despise the church covenant as a document. I
> tend to agree, but I was wondering if you would mind sharing your
reasoning
> on this? Also, I do know of churches which say they require total (I think
> of this as 100%) agreement with their confessions (some use the three
forms
> of unity) in order to be a member there. Personally, I believe this causes
> many people to falsely confess complete support of these documents when,
in
> fact, they don't embrace them totally. If they say they require a
"general"
> agreement, what in the world does that mean? It sounds arbitrary and
> subjective. I know of churches who have statements of faith or
confessions,
> and rather than requiring total agreement with them, the elders inquire of
> the prospective member as to what parts they disagree with. I think that
is
> a much more honest and practical way of dealing with it. If someone
> disagrees with a major tenet of the Christian faith, then that can be
looked
> at and dealt with.
>
> In His grace,
> Nancy
>
>
> >From: Terry Rayburn
> >Reply-To: soundofgrace@...
> >To: soundofgrace@...
> >Subject: [soundofgrace] Membership on PuritanBoard.com - Be honest, now.
> >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >The subject of *the* Antichrist brings into
> >focus something I've been mulling over re the
> >"requirements" for the PuritanBoard.
> >
> >4 Points:
> >
> >1) Statistically, it is virtually impossible for
> >even a majority of the subscribers to agree 100%
> >with the creeds named. Even "not sure", e.g.,
> >about who "the" Antichrist is, would disqualify one
> >from the board.
> >
> >2) If I am correct, then many of the particpants
> >are living a "little white lie" (or even a big
> >whopper lie), by pretending they are in 100%
> >agreement.
> > This is on the level of a church covenant (a
> >common document I personally despise) which calls
> >for *no* consumption of alcoholic beverages. Meanwhile,
> >many among the congregation have a glass of wine
> >with a good meal occasionally, or to carry it to
> >the absurd, a swallow of champagne to toast the
> >bride at a wedding. Thus, either guilt is engendered,
> >or the "little white lie" is sluffed off and the
> >conscience is seared.
> >
> >3) Ironically, the "weak" brother would be the one
> >most harmed by such broken rules, while the "strong"
> >brother may not agree to the cockamamee thing in
> >the first place.
> >
> >4) One last comparison: If I preach tithing to my
> >congregation as a command of God, using Malachi and
> >being consistent enough to tell them they are under
> >the curse of God (per Malachi) for "robbing God"
> >(brr-r-r-r-r!!!)---and I know statistically that
> >only 3% or 7% of my congregation is *ever* going to
> >comply---then I am deliberately, willfully,
> >and recklessly heaping condemnation on 93% to 97%
> >of my congregation. Week after week. Month after
> >month. Year after year.
> > What do you think that does to their spiritual
> >lives, and their relationship to Christ?
> >
> >Scott, be honest, now...do you believe 100% of either
> >of the creeds? 100%??? One *hundred* per cent???
> >
> >Those creeds, which were intended to give glory
> >to God and His Word, have become substitutes for
> >it instead. "Sola Scriptura", but only after one
> >bows to a man-made document? No thanks.
> >
> >Terry Rayburn
> >
> >
> >--- Scott Paul Bushey wrote:
> > > Neil,
> > > Why is this such a stretch? Is it not possible that the
> > > RCC and their pope's -a- antichrist? After all, do they
> > > worship the Jesus of the scriptures?
> > >
> > > I add: During the time when the WCF was written, Rome was
> > > against everything the reformation had embraced.
> > > You do agree that there ARE antichrists?
> > >
> > > Neil Whitcombe wrote:
> > > Wilfred
> > >
> > > Is there anyone who actually believes all of these
> > > documents anymore?
> > > E.G. the reference to the Anti Christ being the Pope?
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wilfred L. Overton [mailto:woverton@...]
> > > Sent: 20 September 2003 04:07
> > > To: soundofgrace@...
> > > Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Membership on
> > > PuritanBoard.com
> > >
> > > Scott,
> > >
> > > Somethime ago a dear friend gave me a list simular to
> > > yours and said I
> > > would enjoy it. They were very ready to recieve me. But I
> > > discovered
> > > they required what you do: "LBC of 1689 or the WCF".
> > > However, they were
> > > more specific, one had to subscirbe to LBC 1689, Article
> > > 19. Since I
> > > could subscribe to the whole article I was rejected.
> > >
> > > What are y'all afraid of?
> > >
> > > --
> > > By Sovereign Grace,
> > > Willie Overton
> > >
> > > "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him
> > > that cometh
> > > to me I will in no wise cast out."
> > >
> > > http://www.swva.net/drapervalleybaptist
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to
> > >
> > >
> > > To view our online archive go to our web page at
> > > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to
> > >
> > > To view our online archive go to our web page at
> > > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >=====
> >========================
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> >An Oasis of Rest For the People of God
> >http://www.graceforlife.com
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> Jeff
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> Jeff
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>
> Jeff
>




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Jeff