Carlo Rose wrote:
> John-Thomas,
>  
> I'm dead serious and yes, at one time, the church use to be major 
> contributors to art, literature, music business, and politics and for 
> the most part, the church has accepted it's exile from the culture. 

Your response to my question is vague, at best.  Are you serious that 
*my disdain for US politics* is the reason for the godlessness in the 
UK?  I am not arguing about art and literature.  You said that my 
disdain for politics is to blame for godlessness.  Wow.  It seems hard 
to pin you down on a real answer, but do you really think passing the 
right legislation or getting the right guy in office will make this 
nation any less unrighteous?

> Christians, especially those, and particular those, with secular jobs 
> should contribute to the culture in all of the aforementioned areas 
> above and in the area of politics, that means, well politics, maybe 
> lobbying, etc. etc. etc. 

Believers should be involved in the above areas of culture, but the 
*church* should not.  When the *church* whines (not the word I want to 
use) and moans about the wrong people being elected, we reduce the 
Gospel to a political solution.

> Let me give, sort of a hyperbole example, in the area of music.  I 
> personally am not a fan of rap.  But the Cross Movement is a grammy 
> nominated hip hop band.  Their niche has been to translate biblical 
> Christian theology into hip hop and rap music by using the genre of hip 
> hop and rap music without the violent and materialistic lyrics that 
> accompanies secular rap music. 

I especially like their song "Cry No More."  It is a great song of what 
God has in store for us.  You should check out Lecrae, too.  Not only 
are his beats bumpin', his songs are tremendous theological commentary. 
  You should also check out shai linne (the lowercase emcee), Trip Lee, 
Tedashii, and Sho Baraka.  There is not another style of music of which 
I am aware (hymns included) that can impart as much information in one 
song as can hip-hop.  To see an example of this, google for "grassroots 
lamp mode recordings".  You will find a free, downloadable album 
produced by Lamp Mode Recordings.  The music is an older, 90's-ish style 
of hip-hop but you will see what I mean that a tremendous amount of 
information can be contained in a hip-hop song.  At the least listen to 
the last track, "Holiness of God."  Wow.  They rhyme "expiation" with 
"liberation."  Beautiful.

My point is you will not get an argument from me against cultural 
engagement.

> The same should be true for other parts of the culture.  In addition to, 
> and over and above, our duty to proclaim the gospel, we should be 
> heavily involved in the culture and reforming the culture.  I am 
> particular pleased the inroads Christians have made through President 
> Bush and other Republicans as it relates to Christian ethics - in two 
> particular areas - abortion and embryonic stem cell research.  I think 
> most of evangelicalism, especially, in Europe and other areas, have 
> adopted liberalism and have completely forgotten the most important 
> ethical issues that government should be involved in - which is 
> defending life.

Inroads?  In ethics?  Are you serious?  You do realize that the next 
president can just issue a new presidential order allowing federal 
funding of embryonic stem cell research, right?  What inroads have been 
made?  Have any hearts been changed?  Is anyone participating in the 
kingdom of God because the president nominated pro-life (presumably) 
candidates to the Supreme Court?

The answer to abortion and immorality and unrighteousness is the Gospel. 
  The Gospel is the power of God.  Only the Gospel can change hearts. 
Look at the "good" kings Judah had.  How many changed the hearts of the 
people?
--
john-thomas