> -----Original Message-----
> From: john-thomas richards [mailto:jtrspam@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 1 May 2008 5:25 AM
> To: soundofgrace@...
> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Baptism Celebration
> 
> >>
> >
> > I am shocked that you cannot see that what is happening so often is in
> fact
> > giving glory to the person. No matter how much you might wish it to be
> > otherwise that is not what is happening. The focus so soon comes on the
> > person being baptised that all else is forgotten.
> 
> Is it?  Do you know that those who are excited over a person's
> conversion/baptism are not truly excited for what *God* did?  I read
> people well, but I cannot read people that well.

Years of experience have shown my intuition to be largely correct though I
did not share it at the time. I rarely do share it. I usually get the
reaction that I have received here. And if I say years later that I was
right about that then I am given further censure and told implicitly not to
brag! As if...

I am wrong some times and being wrong does humble oneself. I wish I was
wrong more often.

> 
> > I remember one baptism where after the candidate was immersed someone
> called
> > out across the church at the top of his voice, 'Yeay.....Tom.'
> 
> Did you ask that man who he was truly applauding?  Did you ask him if
> what he meant with the words, "Yeay......Tom" was really, "Tom, I am so
> very glad that God has performed a wonderful work in your life, that God
> has caused you to be born again and in response, out of love for Him,
> you have publicly confessed Christ in baptism"?  Did you ask him if his
> emotionally excited utterance really meant, "Wow, Tom.  You are amazing.
>   What a wise, intelligent thing you have done.  How very noble and
> meritorious your decision to be baptized!"?

I could not find him and if I had said that he probably would have been
offended.


> 
> Last Sunday we had about ten baptisms in my church.  We applauded each
> time.  We thanked God for what He has done in each life.  Rather than
> audibly saying those words, we clapped.
> 

And I think that is plain dumb! Sorry but that is how I read it and feel
about it.



> >>> NO I will never accept that. I have seen it almost always be something
> >> that
> >>> misses the point of what the baptism is about. I have always come away
> >> from
> >>> it considering that the whole process has been thoroughly debased and
> >>> looking at those who have been the candidates on those occasions and
> >> their
> >>> subsequent lives fully justifies how I see it.
> >> This is terribly sad.
> >
> > What is sad? That this is actually happening or that I see it that way.
> >
> 
> What is sad is you seem to live your life with no joy over one who comes
> to Christ, for fear you may place undue emphasis on the one sheep out of
> 100 who was found.
> 

I am happy when I see people moving on in the Lord, learning more and being
faithful generally. I am not going to go into raptures over one hyped up
event in someone's life.


> >
> > Yes well let Him throw the party. I can wait. In the meantime I am not
> going
> > to confuse people, particularly our young people, into thinking that
> they
> > have done something for which they need to be congratulated.
> > 'Congratulations on your baptism' was what I saw on one cake.
> >
> > And I don't want other young people to think that can have a party if
> and
> > when they decide to be baptised. You won't sort out the sheep from the
> > goats. The party animals will know just what to say to you if you try to
> > quiz them.
> 
> Why not use the opportunity as a time to provide sound instruction for
> celebrating new life *properly*?  You could tell your people that it is
> good and right to celebrate new life but instruct them to remember
> Who/what they are truly celebrating.  You are throwing away opportunities.
> 

If they would do so I would be happy for that. But that never seems to
happen!


> > God bless,
> > Jeff
> 
> I would tell you the many ways God has, indeed, blessed me, but I would
> not want you to misunderstand me to be taking any of the glory from God.
>   Rather than celebrate with you the many ways God has blessed me, you
> must wait until heaven.  Sorry.


I am happy to wait!

God bless,
Jeff