[soundofgrace] Re: [soundofgrace] No Infant Salvation

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From: Night Lighter <lightdanight@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:53:27 -0800 (PST)
I would hold to #4 as well and that John the Baptist was Elijah
which would explain him.
 
I don't believe people die by accident and I do believe that God
preserves His elect. And I am a Baptist. There is no age of
accountability presented in my Bible, where is it in yours?

"Preserving grace before regeneration

"To those who have been called, 
 who are loved by God the Father 
 and preserved in Jesus Christ." 
    Jude 1

What a mercy it is for God's people that before 
they have a 'vital union' with Christ—before they
are grafted into Him experimentally—they have an 
'eternal, immanent union' with Him before all worlds. 
It is by virtue of this eternal union that they come 
into the world . . .
   at such a time,
   at such a place,
   from such parents,
   under such circumstances, 
as God has appointed. 

It is by virtue of this eternal union that the circumstances 
of their lives are ordained. By virtue of this eternal union 
they are preserved in Christ before they are effectually 
called. 

They cannot die until God has brought about a vital 
union with Christ! 

Whatever sickness they may pass through—whatever 
injuries they may be exposed to—whatever perils assault 
them on sea or land—die they will not, die they cannot;
until God's purposes are executed in bringing them into 
a vital union with the Son of His love. 

Thus, this eternal union watched over every circumstance 
of their birth, watched over their childhood, watched over 
their manhood, watched over them until the appointed 
time and spot, when "the God of all grace," according to 
His eternal purpose, was pleased to quicken their souls, 
and thus bring about an experimental union with the Lord 
of life and glory." Joseph Philpot

Jack


Chris Arnzen <carnzen@...> wrote:
I haven't read MacArthur's book on infant salvation, but I have read some of Spurgeon's thoughts and he (even as a very solid, staunch Calvinist) believed all children dying in the state of infancy will be in Heaven. I am not certain why a Calvinist would be so hostile toward this view, *unless* it is being taught that: A) All infants who die will enter Heaven because they are "innocent" and "pure" (and therefore don't need to be saved, as some Campbellites and others teach), or B) God would be unjust to damn infants who die. I only have sympathy for (and tend to personally lean toward) the view that God does not permit unelect infants to die, and it is not purely due to emotionally-driven beliefs that I lean this way.

Although I believe we all at conception inherit the sin of Adam, are worthy of hell and need the blood of Christ to cover us, I don't know of any biblical passage describing hell in which anyone is sent there solely for possessing Adam's sin. Every passage that I can recall specifically mentions those who are being sent there are being damned for their wicked DEEDS. 

I am also not certain why many Calvinists who reject that all dead infants are among the elect reject 2 Sam.12:23 as a support that all dead infants are of the elect, where David, speaking of his dead son, said: "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I SHALL GO TO HIM, but he shall not return to me." I have heard from some that David's statement "I shall go to him" is not referring to Heaven but merely the grave. I am not certain why David would have found comfort in that (it appears he is now in a state of comfort and peace since he ceased fasting and weeping).

I know there are basically 4 views on this among Calvinists: 1.) The agnostic view (we cannot know for certain either way since the Scriptures are not clear on this point), 2.) There certainly will be elect infants in Heaven and nonelect infants in hell, 3.) ALL infants who God permits to die are among the elect and certainly will go to Heaven, and 4.) NO dead infant is among the elect, and therefore, ALL infants who die certainly are going to hell. I know of one Christian who believes the 4th: NO child dying in infancy is of the elect and is therefore in hell, since, in his opinion, the infant cannot have faith, a biblical requirement for salvation. I reminded him of how the infant John the Baptist, while still in his mother's womb, must have been supernaturally given the gift of faith by our Sovereign God even in that preborn condition because he lept for JOY while in the presence of the preborn Christ in Mary's womb, and I stated that perhaps God gives this gift of faith to elect
 children He has ordained to die in infancy (and even to others who live to adulthood that He has ordained to follow Christ from their earliest childhood without ever going through an openly rebellious, unchristian stage). He rejected that argument of mine.

Are you who reject that all dead infants are among the elect saying that even CHRISTIAN parents who grieve the death of a very young child or infant cannot find *doubtless* comfort in Paul's words in 1 Thes.4:13-18?: "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of {the} archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17) Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18) Therefore comfort one
 another with these words." 

As far as "the age of accountability" is concerned, don't ALL Baptistic Christians believe in this in *some* form or another? Of course, we rightfully REJECT the FALSE notion in an "age of accountability" that makes a child previously safe from damnation suddenly in risk of damnation due to his or her ability to choose or reject Christ (since we as Calvinists all agree that ALL men, infants and adults alike, deserve damnation). But if we are honest as Baptistic brethren, we believe there is an "age of accountability" where a child reaches a stage where he or she can make a credible profession of faith in order for him or her to be baptized and receive the Lord's Supper. I think we have to be careful with how we word our protests to an "age of accountability" lest we begin to sound like paedobaptists or paedocommunionists.

Merry Christmas!!!
Chris Arnzen

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