Hi Chris,

I have read the book, and I think you did a good job of upholding some of 
the biblical arguments used in it.  The part about the Bible speaking to 
people being damned for their deeds is documented in the book.  He also does 
not deny that we all inherit the sin of Adam.

He does an excellent job with the story of David, and he brought up things I 
had never thought about.  He says that David was obviously comforted when 
the baby died.  He did not act like a person who would have been thinking 
that their baby was in a place of torment.

As to why so many Calvinists are hostile to this view, I don't know either, 
but John MacArthur includes a short section written by Phil Johnson in one 
of his lessons about a man whose child died in infancy, and he seemed to 
think there was something meritorious about believing his own child had gone 
to hell.  Every chance he had he would bring up how he and his wife had come 
to grips with the fact that their child was simply not among the elect. The 
man was certain that if God had elected that infant, he would have kept him 
alive long enough to bring him to faith.  Phil replied that he would have 
just as much biblical warrant to conclude that if God had decided NOT to 
elect the child, He would have kept him on earth long enough for the child's 
heart to be hardened by sin and for his rebellion to be shown through 
deliberate actions.  Then he reiterates that whenever Scripture describes 
the inhabitants of hell, it always does so with lists of sins and 
abominations they have deliberately committed.

Towards the beginning JM talks about a panel he was on at a conference with 
three other pastors, and they were asked "What happens to babies when they 
die?"  The other three said they didn't know.  He was dismayed and says in 
the book, "How can a person be a pastor and not have an answer to that 
question?  How can a pastor even offer counsel or encouragement to those who 
experience the loss of a child unless he or she has answers to the concerns 
of a grieving heart?"

I highly recommend the book.  It is very thorough, and if you know someone 
who is grieving the death of a baby, I can only say that I think it would be 
a wonderful gift to give them.

Nancy




>From: Chris Arnzen <carnzen@...>
>Reply-To: soundofgrace@...
>To: soundofgrace@...
>Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Infant Salvation
>Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:31:11 -0500
>
>I haven't read MacArthur's book on infant salvation, but I have read some 
>of Spurgeon's thoughts and he (even as a very solid, staunch Calvinist) 
>believed all children dying in the state of infancy will be in Heaven. I am 
>not certain why a Calvinist would be so hostile toward this view, *unless* 
>it is being taught that: A) All infants who die will enter Heaven because 
>they are "innocent" and "pure" (and therefore don't need to be saved, as 
>some Campbellites and others teach), or B) God would be unjust to damn 
>infants who die. I only have sympathy for (and tend to personally lean 
>toward) the view that God does not permit unelect infants to die, and it is 
>not purely due to emotionally-driven beliefs that I lean this way.
>
>Although I believe we all at conception inherit the sin of Adam, are worthy 
>of hell and need the blood of Christ to cover us, I don't know of any 
>biblical passage describing hell in which anyone is sent there solely for 
>possessing Adam's sin. Every passage that I can recall specifically 
>mentions those who are being sent there are being damned for their wicked 
>DEEDS.
>
>I am also not certain why many Calvinists who reject that all dead infants 
>are among the elect reject 2 Sam.12:23 as a support that all dead infants 
>are of the elect, where David, speaking of his dead son, said: "But now he 
>is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I SHALL GO TO 
>HIM, but he shall not return to me." I have heard from some that David's 
>statement "I shall go to him" is not referring to Heaven but merely the 
>grave. I am not certain why David would have found comfort in that (it 
>appears he is now in a state of comfort and peace since he ceased fasting 
>and weeping).
>
>I know there are basically 4 views on this among Calvinists: 1.) The 
>agnostic view (we cannot know for certain either way since the Scriptures 
>are not clear on this point), 2.) There certainly will be elect infants in 
>Heaven and nonelect infants in hell, 3.) ALL infants who God permits to die 
>are among the elect and certainly will go to Heaven, and 4.) NO dead infant 
>is among the elect, and therefore, ALL infants who die certainly are going 
>to hell. I know of one Christian who believes the 4th: NO child dying in 
>infancy is of the elect and is therefore in hell, since, in his opinion, 
>the infant cannot have faith, a biblical requirement for salvation. I 
>reminded him of how the infant John the Baptist, while still in his 
>mother's womb, must have been supernaturally given the gift of faith by our 
>Sovereign God even in that preborn condition because he lept for JOY while 
>in the presence of the preborn Christ in Mary's womb, and I stated that 
>perhaps God gives this gift of faith to elect children He has ordained to 
>die in infancy (and even to others who live to adulthood that He has 
>ordained to follow Christ from their earliest childhood without ever going 
>through an openly rebellious, unchristian stage). He rejected that argument 
>of mine.
>
>Are you who reject that all dead infants are among the elect saying that 
>even CHRISTIAN parents who grieve the death of a very young child or infant 
>cannot find *doubtless* comfort in Paul's words in 1 Thes.4:13-18?: "But we 
>do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so 
>that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14) For if we 
>believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him 
>those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15) For this we say to you by the 
>word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the 
>Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord 
>Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of {the} 
>archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise 
>first. 17) Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with 
>them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be 
>with the Lord. 18) Therefore comfort one another with these words."
>
>As far as "the age of accountability" is concerned, don't ALL Baptistic 
>Christians believe in this in *some* form or another? Of course, we 
>rightfully REJECT the FALSE notion in an "age of accountability" that makes 
>a child previously safe from damnation suddenly in risk of damnation due to 
>his or her ability to choose or reject Christ (since we as Calvinists all 
>agree that ALL men, infants and adults alike, deserve damnation). But if we 
>are honest as Baptistic brethren, we believe there is an "age of 
>accountability" where a child reaches a stage where he or she can make a 
>credible profession of faith in order for him or her to be baptized and 
>receive the Lord's Supper. I think we have to be careful with how we word 
>our protests to an "age of accountability" lest we begin to sound like 
>paedobaptists or paedocommunionists.
>
>Merry Christmas!!!
>Chris Arnzen

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