(1)  An individuals becomes accountable the first time they sin.

(2)  All individuals have already sinned in Adam.

(3)  All individuals are already guilty, at birth, in the sight of God.

(4)  An eighty year sinner is not any more a sinful being that he was when
he was born, he merely had eighty years to prove it.

(5)  Adam is the only person who ever became a sinner by sinning. We are
born "accountable" sinners by virute of our union with Adam.

JGR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris B. McKinney" <cmck@...>
To: <soundofgrace@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 4:52 AM
Subject: RE: [soundofgrace] No Infant Salvation Chris M


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Night Lighter [mailto:lightdanight@...]
> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 7:38 AM
> >
> > I am not sure how you are using these verses to support your view
> > of an age of accountability?
>
> First, I nowhere have presented my view of an age of accountability.  I
> merely suggested a biblical text that could present some such view, in the
> face of your bold assertion that no such text existed.
>
> > Are you saying that the age of accountability
> > is not an age such as 12 but an age as in the time of the         of the
> > old covenant? Interesting, but are not the reprobates still accountable?
> >
> > Or are you saying that all who died before the law or in lands where the
> > law is not known are saved because they don't know the law and therefore
> > are not condemned?
>
> Paul seems to be saying that there was a time when he was alive, and then
> there was a time when he died.  He died because of sin.  To use his
example
> (regarding coveting), I find it reasonable to believe that Paul did covet
> before "the law came", but that he was not "killed" thereby until "the law
> came."
>
> It is plausible that the "coming of the law" is to be understood in terms
of
> understanding right and wrong.  I have also heard some interpret this to
> refer to one's bar mitzvah.
>
> Out of curiosity, what kind of "life" and "death" do Calvinists see this
> verse talking about?
>
> Consider also this passage:
>
> Isa 7:14-16
> 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin
shall
> conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
> 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and
> choose the good.
> 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the
good,
> the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
> (KJV)
>
> While one may interpret such texts in a way that does not establish an
"age
> of accountability," I would prefer to hear discussions of the texts before
> concluding that no age of accountability is presented in anyone's Bible.
>
> For the record, I do not have a well-formulated belief in an age of
> accountability, but off the cuff I think it makes sense.  But then, I'm no
> Calvinist; with all the talk here recently of those who accept an age of
> accountability as letting their sentiments affect their judgment, I might
as
> well say I think one's Calvinist sentiments can affect one's judgment in
the
> matter just as easily.  I respect more those Calvinists who have seemed
open
> to considering that scripture might support an age of accountability, not
> less.
>
> Chris
>
> > "Chris B. McKinney" <cmck@...> wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Night Lighter [mailto:lightdanight@...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 7:53 PM
> > >
> > > I don't believe people die by accident and I do believe that God
> > > preserves His elect. And I am a Baptist. There is no age of
> > > accountability presented in my Bible, where is it in yours?
> >
> > What about this:
> >
> > Rom 7:7-11
> > 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not
known
> > sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had
> > said, Thou
> > shalt not covet.
> > 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner
of
> > concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
> > 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came,
sin
> > revived, and I died.
> > 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto
> > death.
> > 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and
> > by it slew
> > me.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > --Chris McKinney
>
>
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