I think I might have been the first one to use the word 'shallow' in my
posts on this topic, and because of that I must ask forgiveness from both
Chris and Nancy if it made you feel attacked.

It seemed a useful description for comparing comfort from a derived idea
that is at least debatable, with comfort being Christ himself.

None-the-less, I offended both of you.
Will you forgive me.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Arnzen [mailto:carnzen@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 9:00 AM
To: soundofgrace@...
Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Infant Salvation



----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Newcomb" <nan_new39@...>
To: <soundofgrace@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Infant Salvation


> Chris,
>
> That was an awesome post.  I too find it grievous to have motives 
> impugned over this belief.  In my own life, and in various situations, 
> I have found that Christ offers comfort through many means, although 
> He is the source
of
> the comfort.  I think that having a hope of the resurrection that is 
> tied
to
> the hope of others who Christ died for is much more glorious than if I 
> was to have hope for myself only.  Why?  Because God designed it that 
> way.  As believers we are to comfort one another by these words.  I'm 
> thankful to
be
> able to share the good news of Jesus--who shows grace towards their 
> infants--with grieving parents.
>
> Still "shallowly" comforted by His promises,
> Nancy

[Chris] Thanks, Nancy! Your post comforted me. I guess that makes me REALLY
shallow. };o)


>
> >From: Chris Arnzen <carnzen@...>
> >Reply-To: soundofgrace@...
> >To: soundofgrace@...
> >Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Infant Salvation
> >Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:31:38 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> > > It's shallow comfort for a parent to rest in believing he'll see 
> > > his
> >child
> > > again. (whether it's true or not)
> > > His comfort must be totally in Christ, and the trial of losing a 
> > > child
> >is
> >an
> > > exercise in stretching his faith to that end.
> >
> >
> >[Chris] Okay, folks, I am ending my part in the discussion here. I am 
> >simply tired of seeing the motives for my beliefs impugned. I am 
> >amazed that
many
> >of my brethren are insinuating that I, and brethren such as myself 
> >(including Spurgeon) who believe we can extend biblical comfort to 
> >those Christian parents mourning the loss of an infant by reminding 
> >them of the promises given by the inspired Apostle Paul in 1 
> >Thes.4:13-18, are merely offering shallow comfort, even though we are 
> >biblically convinced in
infant
> >salvation (even if you disagree with our conclusions). Most of you 
> >making these passionate protests, with few exceptions, are agnostics 
> >over the issue any way, which means in the long run, when all is said 
> >and done, WE MIGHT BE
> >*RIGHT*!!! I cannot help but believe that much of this sentiment stems
from
> >an arrogant form of Hyper-Calvinistic piety, that insists that if 
> >anyone seeks comfort in ANYTHING else, other than Christ being in 
> >Sovereign control over all events, he or she is a shallow Christian. 
> >If this was true, then Paul would never have offered his words of 
> >comfort even to those mourning the loss of adult Christian loved ones 
> >in 1 Thes.4:13-18. Otherwise, he would have merely said, "Do not 
> >concern yourself, brothers, about those
who
> >have fallen asleep, because knowing they are at peace with the Savior 
> >for all eternity is not where you are to receive comfort. That's 
> >God's business, so just mind your own business. Just trust in the 
> >fact that God will do what
> >is right in regard to their eternal destiny. If you concern yourself
about
> >anything less than the Person of Christ you are being shallow and 
> >man-centered." But our tender and compassionate God did not say that 
> >in
His
> >Word. Obviously the Person of Christ must be our chief focus in EVERY
area
> >of thought, and the main source of our comfort in any trial, but *HE* 
> >offered additional (not superior or even equal) comfort. *HE* is the 
> >one who inspired Paul to remind us about departed Christian loved 
> >ones rising
again
> >and returning with Him as a powerful source of comfort. It is one 
> >thing
to
> >disagree with my conclusions that infants who die will not be 
> >tormented
in
> >hell. It is entirely another thing to insinuate that my belief in
offering
> >comfort to mourners who grieve the loss of an infant with SCRIPTURAL 
> >promises is shallow. As I have repeated many times, I am not merely 
> >drive
n
> >by mushy-gushy Hallmark Card sentiment to draw my conclusions. I just
have
> >not as of yet been biblically convinced that infants will be 
> >tormented in hell for the very same reasons I have not as of yet been 
> >biblically convinced that they are proper candidates for baptism. 
> >Just as the Scriptures teach who the proper candidates for baptism 
> >are, and why, when and how they are to be baptized, they also teach 
> >who those who are tormented in hell are, and why they are being 
> >tormented (for their deeds). I see no infants mentioned in either 
> >category.
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Read the Sound of Grace pages at
> >http://www.soundofgrace.com
> >
> >To unsubscribe, send ANY message to 
> ><soundofgrace-unsubscribe@...>
> >
> >To view our online archive go to our web page at 
> >http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace
> >
> >
> >
>
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