Sorry to use this link to start another thread but I didn't know how else to do it. I have a question. When a presbyterian uses the phrase "ruling elder," what is the scriptural basis for the word "ruling," and how is it defined. How would a baptist elder rule in this context versus a presbyterian "ruling elder." As a sovereign grace baptist who happens to attend and am a member of a PCA church, I am having a hard time grasping the differences and similarities (if there are any). Thanks, spb > -----Original Message----- > From: James Beals [SMTP:jbeals@...] > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 3:33 AM > To: soundofgrace@... > Cc: jclemens@... > Subject: [soundofgrace] Matthew 18:15-17 > > Friends: > > As you can see from the subject, my question is related to the passage in > Matthew that we are all familiar with. > -------------------------------------------------------- > 15 Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault > between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. > 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that "by the > mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." > 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he > refuses > even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax > collector. > - NKJV > -------------------------------------------------------- > NB - Most of the translations seem to read very similar to the above. > > I put it to you this way: > I am aware of a situation where the first two "steps" of the "Matthew 18" > process have been followed without success. > ... that being: > 1. Offended party goes to offending party and seeks reconciliation > (without success). > 2. Offended party goes to offending party "with one or two more" and > seeks > reconciliation (without success). > > In the event that the process is followed through to "step three", > ... that being: > 3. Offended party "tells it the church". > > My question is this: > Is verse 17 above describing two distinct events or gatherings? > - One (the first) where the Offended party "tells it to the church" with > > the Offending party ABSENT from that meeting... and > - Two (the second) where the church delivers their message to the > Offending party where he/she subsequently "refuses to hear". > ----- OR ----- > Is verse 17 above describing a single event or gathering? where: > - the Offended party "tells it to the church" with the Offending party > PRESENT where he/she subsequently "refuses to hear". > > > This as a practical question with practical implications so please be > practical in your advice / exigesis. > I realize this may spawn more questions than answers, which in itself may > be useful, but right now I am looking for the "answers". > My concern is for the truth and that the Scriptures be "rightly divided" > and applied and the Lord obeyed. > > in Christ, > Jamie Beals > Ottawa > > PS I will read your reply posts on the SOG chat group, but if you wish, > please also feel free to reply to me directly at jbeals@... > PPS Here is a follow-up question: Would you treat the situation any > differently if the Offending party was a pastor? This, of course, has > implications with respect to the "removal of a pastor" in the same way > that > it has implications with respect to the "removal of a member". > > -- > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > >