[soundofgrace] Re: [soundofgrace] Re: Baptism - Jack to Jeff

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From: "James W. Allen" <jallen@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:39:24 -0400
Hello, Steve. I do not think you and I have a disagreement (you were
responding to Jack), but I would take issue with some of your examples.

Thus, you use the example of Annanias and Paul and ask: "Did Paul
demonstrate to Annanais any credible repentance or confession?"

Surely this example does not assist us, Annanias had a command from God
regarding Paul. We do not get those commands these days. Paul did not need
to be "credible," because God was credible. :)

Second, you refer to the example of Cornelius and note: "I suspect not many
of us would consider magnifying God via speaking in tongues (even if REAL
languages) as credible evidence...but Peter did, and once again the 'period'
involved was a single sermon to these folks."

Again, this is not an example useful for us. The gift of tongues in that
manner *was* proof of regeneration and filling at that time, so that Peter
acted properly. It is not proof now, so the fact that we would not count it
"credible evidence" now is irrelevant. At the time, it was credible and was
relied upon. In fact, you will note that (in that case) it was not mere
expression of belief that led to baptism, but belief coupled with evidence
of actual conversion. The example cuts against you more than for you.

In regard to Christ's commission, you write: "Finally, doesn't Christ imply
that baptism with disbelief results in condemnation?"

I see nothing in the text that suggests that baptism "facilitates"
condemnation.

You properly note: "and if they express belief, we baptize," but this is my
whole point. What constitutes an "expression of belief"? There must be some
indicia of credibility in regard to the words used. We would not baptize a
man who expressed belief with words while his body language signaled
sarcasm, nor would we baptize someone who expressed belief while giggling or
while intoxicated. There must be some threshold level of determination as to
credibility.

However, as I note, we do not really disagree, I think, in regard to
baptismal classes.



James W. Allen
jallen@...