>-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Fuchs (on MSN) [mailto:SteveF_MS@...] >Sent: Monday, 21 June 2004 2:36 AM >To: soundofgrace@... >Subject: RE: [soundofgrace] Officiating Pastors > >Doesn't scripture teach that 'some' (certainly not all) are given the gift >of preaching as a gift to the body for that purpose. Thus, if a gathering >or celebration of the body calls for preaching, it shouldn't be unusual for >the 'boy' with that gift to exercise it as a blessing of love and service >to >the body and a fulfillment of his God-given role and gift. > [Jeff comments] Quite right Steve. I think that churches could quite easily have a preaching team with members apart from the pastor(s) and who from time to time do some of the preaching. I wondering whether according to that much wrestled verse on pastor/teachers could you have a preacher/teacher who does not have the gift of pastoring. I think that some that I have known come to mind. Hmmmm! I wonder if we would allow some of the teaching brothers to be sisters!!! >But as regards to being more than 'one of the boys': certainly his role >requires the exercise of some leadership, just as the husband's role does, >but Christ himself also has some strong words about how that role is about >loving/service rather than authority/lordship - or setting the preacher >'over' the rest. >The authority is in 'the Word', and since the preacher's gift is to bring >'THE Word' to the body, the body is called to observe the Scripture he >brings (not his personal commands, but the understanding and teaching of >scripture). Beyond that, Christ gives warning... > >NASB Mat 23: >1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, >2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the >chair of Moses; >3 therefore all that they preach to you, do and observe, but do not do >according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. >4 "They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they >themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. >5 "But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden >their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. (special >leadership garments?) >6 "They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the >synagogues (places of distinction, such as reserved seats or fancy pulpits >with strict rules about who is allowed there??), >7 and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi >by >men. (authoritative titles??? My own pastor hates being addressed by his >name rather than 'Pastor') >8 "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all >brothers. (one of the boys???) >9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He >who >is in heaven. >10 "Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. >(Do >not be called 'Leader'??? Wow! I guess Christ is the only one who's not >'one of the boys'???) >11 "But the greatest among you shall be your servant. (Ahhh, it's about >Loving, not lording) >12 "Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself >shall be exalted. > >(whoever wants to be more than one of the boys....???) > >Obviously 'loving' sometimes involves sternly and convictingly preaching >the >Truth; it's not mushy acquiescence to popular opinion, but it's to be >characterized by humble servanthood, not exalted authority. > [Jeff comments] Absolutely. And y'know I reckon a worldly interloper into the workings of a congregation might not even recognize such a leader as being one. God bless, Jeff >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Scanlan [mailto:jscanlan@...] >Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 3:26 AM >To: soundofgrace@... >Subject: [soundofgrace] Officiating Pastors > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >Moe has raised the issue of officiating pastors who take funerals, >weddings, >etc. > >Now it might seem strange for one like me who believes strongly in >congregational church government that I like to see the pastor taking a >lead >role around the church. The notion that he is just one of the boys has >never >sat right with me. Just as your President represents the nation to the >people so do I think that in a real sense the pastor represents the church >to the people in the pews. > >I know that it is popular to argue that the church should not be as it was >in the past where the pastor did everything. However I doubt that such a >time ever really existed. I cannot imagine that any pastor faced with >church >member saying that he and his wife were spending time helping a certain >widow to cope being told, 'How dare you! That is my job!' > >So I don't think we need to react against that and nor do I think that the >work in a church should not be shared around where possible. But I do think >that it is good for a pastor to take a lead and that might mean that he be >there at those special times of life such as weddings and funerals where it >needs to be demonstrated that the church stands behind its members whatever >they are going through. > >FWIW >God bless, >Jeff > > > > > > >>From: Moe Bergeron [mailto:moe.bergeron@...] >>Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:27 AM >>To: soundofgrace@... >>Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Re: Baptism - Moe to Jack & all >> >>JACKJEFF@... wrote: >> >>I have been quite busy lately, so have not responded yet to Steve, but >am >>preparing one. More to follow! >>Been there, done that! >> >>--- Moe Replies -- >>Jack, Ok then you are "ouch!" free. I'll be looking forward to reading >your >>response that I'm sure will be filled with scripture. >> >>You know, I've always been curious how simple straight-forward >believer's >>immersion was transformed into what is now commonly understood to be a >>church sacrament that is administered by the authorized clergy person. >> >>As an aside, after fourteen years of pastoring I'm still wondering why >it >>was my duty to officiate at weddings and funerals. I was never >comfortable >>doing either. Not that I didn't take advantage of the opportunities to >>present the Good News. >> >>Speaking of such I'd really appreciate the prayers of the list for this >>Thursday evening. A dear friend in Christ has suffered the loss of a >>brother-in-law and on behalf of the widowed sister has asked that I >lead >>the service. Apart from my friend all of the family could possibly be >>strangers to our Lord. Pray our Lord give me the appropriate texts from >His >>word to bring comfort, conviction and a sure hope for their own souls. >> >> Moe >> >>-- >>Read the Sound of Grace pages at >>http://www.soundofgrace.com >> >>To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: >soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... >> >>To view our online archive go to our web page at >>http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace >> > >-- >Read the Sound of Grace pages at >http://www.soundofgrace.com > >To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > >To view our online archive go to our web page at >http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > >-- >Read the Sound of Grace pages at >http://www.soundofgrace.com > >To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > >To view our online archive go to our web page at >http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > >