And you said I had a selective memory when it comes to the book of Romans! Romans 3 20For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it-- 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. Further, no where does it say that Christ's was righteous apart from the law. "Righteous" has no meaning apart from the law. We only understand righteousness because of the law, before the law Christ was still righteous. Don't you agree? "Chad R. Bresson" <breusswane@...> wrote: --- H Dorrington wrote: > No my argument is not with Jesus but with your interpretation of what He is > saying, or at least what it appears you are saying. You are saying that God has > offered us another way in which we can be saved and that is by obeying the > commandments. No, that is not what I am saying. The only way we can be saved is by obeying the commandments to perfection. Since it is impossible for us to obey the commandments to perfection, Jesus obeyed them for us on our behalf. >Do this and you will live. You are saying that the offer to Adam in > the garden has been extended to all of Adam's children. I've said nothing about an "offer". This is a reality that the fall did not alter... and the Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, Nehemiah, Matthew, Luke, and Romans passages attest that the fall did not alter the reality. What *changed* at the fall was not the method of salvation but man's ability to meet the demands of salvation. >You are then saying that > because of Adam's fall that this offer is still on the table but that not one of > us has the ability to earn salvation by our good works and so the second Adam > earned it for us. Not by His death but by His life in active obedience in keeping > the commandments. It's not an "offer". It's the terms of Adam's relationship to the two trees. The obedience for life formula in Genesis 2 is not about "grace" but about "justice". But I am suggesting that Romans' commentary on Leviticus 18 is all about "ability", not the reality of salvation through the law. Man's inability (via Romans 3) is the reason *why* the law cannot save, not because the law itself cannot save. Because Paul says in both Galatians 3 and Romans 10 that the law *does* save. > I have commented on the texts which say obedience for life by acknowledging that > they are the measure by which we all fall short and show us that we can not do it > on our own. Fall short of what? God's glory and eternal life are interchangeable in this matter. "Falling short" is itself testimony to the obedience for life principle. >Therefore the words of John the baptist ring forth: Behold the Lamb of > God which takes away the sins of the world. He was without blemish, righteous > apart from the law Nowhere in the canon does it say that Christ's righteousness was apart from the law. You are imposing your viewpoint where there is no warrant to do so in order to protect your system. > and even the law could find no fault in Him and so it > testifies of His righteousness. Huh? "The law could find no fault in Him" has no reality apart from being under the law to begin with. The law cannot testify to that which has not submitted to it. Not only is this an admission that Christ placed himself under the law to obey it, it reveals the illogic of your viewpoint. >It does not earn Him righteousness so He can have > extra to impute to us for He was totally righteous apart from the law! No one is saying anything about "extra". that's an idea you're imposing into the conversation. Further, no where does it say that Christ's was righteous apart from the law. "Righteous" has no meaning apart from the law. Chad Bresson Xenia, OH --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. -- Read the Sound of Grace pages at http://www.soundofgrace.com To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... To view our online archive go to our web page at http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace