CHAD:  Come to think of it, what's the difference between this and an
employer who pays me $___________ on the condition that I accomplish a
job?  My employer is gracious?  If I do my work, he *owes* me.  That's
not grace.  That's justice.  If I graduate from high school, the
philanthropist *owes* me.  That's not grace.  That's justice.

MARK:  Piper answers this in his illustration, but I'll amplify.  If I
accomplish my job (requirement), it was through the grace of my employer
who helped me every step of the way.  I "overcame" laziness (1 Jn. 5:4)
and "labored" at my job (1 Cor. 15:10) and persevered by my employer's
grace (Gal. 2:20) and met the requirements of what I was commanded to do
on my job (Rom. 8:4).  God doesn't owe me, but He does say He will reward
me.  This is where your analogy breaks down.  You see everything as
earned wages, when it's not.  You falsely dichotomize between requirement
and effort, thinking that simply because there's a requirement in the mix
that there can't be any grace in there as well.  What can't be in the mix
is human effort ALONE.  No one is saying that God's grace is absent or
unnecessary in meeting what God commands.  Augustine I guess was New
Perspective when he said: "Grant what you command, and command what you
will."  Thought question:  Since Adam was perfect in a perfect
environment, did he still need the grace of God, for example, in naming
the animals (Gen. 2:19)?  If he did, and this was part of his "job
description" from Genesis 1:26ff in subduing the earth, why was this
grace given to him since he already was perfect and we know that commands
and grace can't mix?  Wasn't it God's grace to bring him the animals to
name?

CHAD:  Just as the philanthropist doesn't have to make the offer (his
condescension or generosity), my employer doesn't have to hire me (his
condescension or generosity).

MARK:  True, it's ALL of grace.  But you still haven't answered the text
in Peter and James.  Why does God give a greater grace to the humble (1
Pet. 5:5)?  If only the humble can receive "greater grace," how did they
get that way?  Woke up humbled?  They OBEYED the very next verse which
Peter commands his readers to heed ("Therefore, humble yourself" -- a
command).  According to your understanding, if Peter commands humility
and God only gives greater grace to the humble, then Peter is asking his
readers to "earn or merit grace" by obeying his command (vs. 6).  Why
would Peter demand his readers to practice something only God can give
and do as a precondition to greater grace?  According to this view if I
pray for God's GRACE to do something and He grants it, then I've asked
God to respond in a "cause and effect" way, and that simply can't be done
because God cannot give grace when there's some "cause" prior to it's
being given.  Do I tell God when I pray that I'm NOT trying to obey the
command to pray (Jam. 4:2) so there won't be any confusion on why I'm
asking for grace (Heb. 4:12)?  Or do I obey and just call my obedience
something else?

________________________________________________________________
Get your name as your email address.
Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more
Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today!