Dear William I pastored in the prisons for some years. One thing I have learned is that the crisis of imprisonment may lead to the false professions pictured in the Parable of the Soils. A joyous embracing of the gospel does not equate with a true embracing of it. The psychology of guilt/shame/new start may be the driving force of the profession, rather than true repentance. That is not to say prison conversions may not be genuine - I know of fine Christians, some now faithful pastors, who were converted in prison. It is just to say that there is a real attraction to false profession in prison, amongst some types. Now to your specific case: > Later, he made a full confession to the church which turned out to be very > selective - blamed the crimes on drinking when the police reports indicate > sober premeditation - rented the camera the day before and prepared the > basement etc. - and he failed to mention the kidnapping and death threats - > or the fifteen other victims. At the time of his full confession he had, > without the knowledge of the pastor, been having children sleeping over. This is totally unacceptable as a confession to the church. It misrepresents the facts and hides the enormity of the sin. It is merely an attempt to gain acceptance with the church, a cover for the sort of person he is. > Questions: > > 1. Should such be allowed as members? No. If Ananias and Sapphira were disciplined for lying about how much they gave to the church, these lies about his past and his association with children now make this man unfit for membership. > 2. What precautions if any, do we take? Regarding him, tell the police about his behaviour. For general principles, make sure ANYONE who has contact with children in the name of your church has been vetted as far as possible. A check on the Sex Offenders' list with your police should be possible. In the U.K. our churches have to give training to all their children's workers on acceptable practices. Just keeping an eye on anyone closely involved with kids is also a good idea. > 3. Is true repentance indicated by restitution or co-operation with the > magistrates? No. The prospect of a new start, etc. may cause even a full confession and restitution. But the dog may return to its vomit. The attraction of the gospel will pale when the non-regenerate heart misses the pleasures of sin. True repentance will be accompanied by restitution, but not vice versa. > 4. If he refuses to co-operate with the police - they want him to have > a curfew and stay away from children and he is fighting the court order - > and they want him to help solve the other 15 cases and do his time for them > - is he then to be put under church discipline? I believe he should be rejected as firmly as Simon the sorcerer. Paedophiles especially are keen to use churches as a cover for their wickedness and as a hunting-ground. Any who come to you professing repentance need to be rigorously examined and made to be fully open about their daily conduct, and to be barred from close contact with children. The true convert will be glad to comply. Just some prayerful thoughts. I'll be praying for you, for wisdom as you shepherd the flock of God. In Him Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "William and Dorothy Oosterman" <tulip01@...> To: <soundofgrace@...> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 4:28 AM Subject: [unspam] [soundofgrace] A practical problem for Elders/Pastors - crime - and diagnosis "predatory pedophilia > Greetings: > > Have been off the list for some years - as a pastor I have a practical > problem and would like some response from any and all - not just from > pastors. > > Situation: > > A man goes to jail for some very serious crimes. He professes faith in jail > and joins a church when released. > > It then is revealed that there are many crimes for which he was not > convicted. He did confess to 15 more crimes while in jail but refused to > provide the police with DNA evidence of help them resolve the crimes. > > The police begin a new investigation when it is revealed that he was in > danger of relapse. He refuses to co-operate. > > The crime - and diagnosis "predatory pedophilia". He had kidnapped at knife > point, and video taped for 5 hours, two boys and a girl, aged 8-10. > > Later, he made a full confession to the church which turned out to be very > selective - blamed the crimes on drinking when the police reports indicate > sober premeditation - rented the camera the day before and prepared the > basement etc. - and he failed to mention the kidnapping and death threats - > or the fifteen other victims. At the time of his full confession he had, > without the knowledge of the pastor, been having children sleeping over. > > > > Questions: > > 1. Should such be allowed as members? > 2. What precautions if any, do we take? > 3. Is true repentance indicated by restitution or co-operation with the > magistrates? > 4. If he refuses to co-operate with the police - they want him to have > a curfew and stay away from children and he is fighting the court order - > and they want him to help solve the other 15 cases and do his time for them > - is he then to be put under church discipline? > > > We do have a brother who had done time for Break and Enters - theft - then > he was saved and a member for 5 years. He slipped and went back on drugs and > did three BNE's. I advised him to turn himself in to the police and report > the crimes. He did and is serving 1.5 years - he was on parole at the time. > He will be out in 6 months and is doing very well in prison without drugs, > being a witness to others. > > 1. If he refused to co-operate with the police would you put him under > discipline? > > > Both cases are real to us. What say, my friends. How do we deal with these > issues?