[soundofgrace] Re: [soundofgrace] infant depravity

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From: Roundrocke@...
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:01:40 EST
 
In a message dated 12/4/2004 10:41:39 PM Central Standard Time,  
pastor@... writes:

Redemption assumes a 
debt, not a debt nature.  There can be no  redemption unless there is a real 
debt.  One cannot redeem someone  from a debt nature.  If a person is 
redeemed  it must be true  that, legally speaking, he has incurred a debt. 
Having a nature or  tendency to incur debt does not activate the need for 
redemption.  If  I were of a nature to spend without restraint and beyond my 
means, no-one  could demand a penny of payment from me unless I actually went 
out and  overspent.  If my nature in my mother's womb were that of a  
shop-aholic, no one could redeem me for, despite my debt-producing nature,  I 
would still have no debt.  So redemption cannot be applied to  me.

I think you can see how this would be applied to the question of  the 
sinfulness of infants: if they are in need of redemption, then they  have a 
debt which must be paid, actual sin that is on their account in  some way or 
another.  Since infants have not done anything, either  good or bad, it must 
be their debt (sin) arises from another source.   They inherit it: not just a 
nature or tendency to produce debt (sin), but  actual debt (debt) is imputed 
to them, and they are not debtless  (sinless).  It is for this reason that 
they must be redeemed if they  are to be saved.





BUT:  children can be held liable for debts of the  parents - LEGALLY.
We are held as sinners before God because we all sinned in  Adam.
Ever know a baby who had to be taught to lie?   steal?   cheat on games, etc?
My 2 1/2 yr old grandson will emphatically deny a dirty diaper  - when the 
"evidence" is strong!  He just does not like to be  changed.   Who does enjoy 
the "change" process in our  lives?   We love the result, not the process.
We deny our guilt and need for change - by nature.    God has to change our 
nature before we desire the process of change in our  life.
Personally, I cannot recall a time when I did not believe in  Christ - and 
always believed in God's sovereignty, even before I heard of the  doctrine.   At 
3, I announced to my grandparents that "the guardian  angel was with us, so 
everything was ok".   They were amazed, and  talked to my Mom - also amazed, 
because nobody had told me about such a  thing.   Not claiming to have been 
reborn at that time  (smile....BEFORE the widely accepted "age of 
accountability")...too young to  understand these things, but my  God already was working in 
this  kid.   By His grace, He has kept me on "short apron-strings" all my  
life, protecting me from so much of this world.   Sinless.....of  course not!   
But without His redemption, I would be headed for hell  just as surely as the 
"worst" sinner out there.
 
Hope I don't confuse the issues.
Charlene

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