Dear brothers,
I am glad this question has come up, not because it may ignite a
controversy, but because it introduces and importqnt question for which I
have no satisfactory answer.
As one raised in the mountains of WV, I was exposed a little to the
pentecostal/charismatic religion. I was never a part of it, but it was
around me. Moreoever, it is nearly impossible to miss the onslaught of
religious television that promotes the exercise of what are often called
"the miracle gifts."
It is easy to dismiss the charismatic movement as it is portrayed on
television by the faith healers, tongues speakers, etc. The fact that so
many send these charlatans money is a testimony to the blindness and
foolisheness of the human heart.
Moreover, it is easy to dismiss the "charismatic" activity of those with
whom I am familiar with through my childhood. In teaching our congregation
on the matter of tongues, I have often said, "Without any reference to what
the Scriptures say on the subject of tongues, I can confidently deny any
validity to what these people are doing: since what they say in plain
English is obviously not of the Spirit of God, I can safely assume that what
they say i an "unknown tongue" is equally blasphemous, if it means anything
at all. If I ever hear of anyone who preaches the gospel of God's free and
sovereign grace and also practices these gifts, I will give it another
look."
Well, here we have a group which presents themselves as both sovereign grace
and charismatic. I have known about them for a few years, but have not
actually looked deeply into what they say and do. One of the reasons I have
not looked onto it more deeply is this: if upom firther research I come to
the conclusion they are correct, what am I going to do?" As years go by,
one does become heavily invested in the theology he has preached, not only
in personal faith, but in the network of associates and friends he makes
through that theology. So, one does not want to rock that boat. That may
sound quite wicked, and indeed, it can be, if a man is ready to reject the
truth in order to maintain his staus quo. It was this very principle that
caused many to reject the Lord, himself.
Yet, in this case, it is not quite so "wicked" for there are a couple of
Scriptural statements/principles that allow for a bit of "blissful
ignorance," as to whether the "miracle gifts" are in force today, and
whether any particualr group professing them is legeitimate. Basically the
principle is, "It doesn;t matter what I may think ofth "gifts" or of anyone
practicing them: they will be in force when and where God wants them to be.
I do not think they are presently in force, but I have no compelling
Scripural argument to prove that point, so I cannot be dogmatic" This
statement is where I am right now and it is a synthesis of the following
Scriptural statements:
1. Peter said that all who repent and are baptized for the remission of sins
do receive the gift of the Spirit; so we must conclude that all those that
repent and are baptized for the remission of sins actually do have th Spirit
of God in all His NC presence and power.
2. It does appear that the use of the "miracle gifts" did wane even during
the time of the apostles, and Paul. himself, urged a zeal for the better
gifts which involve the edifying of the church. These gifts are not as
"flashy" as tongues and healing, but are much more useful.
3. It would appear from the transition of 1 Cor. 12 to 1 Cor. 13 that we
need not emphasize gifts at all, that is, by seeking them out and
puposefully putting them into action, for living by the principle of love
toward one another will cause these gifts to appear when and if they are
useful to the assembly.
4. That being said, there is no compelling Scriptural argument tot he
effectt hat the "miracle gifts" have utterly ceased and shall never appear.
5. The church got along fine without the "miralce gifts" for hundreds of
years.
6. You will note that to this point I have always put miracle gifts in
quotes. This is for a reason. In truth, ALL the gifts of the Spirit are
miracle gifts. It is simply amazing to see many "ignorant and unlearned"
men preach the gospel with more power, conviction and clarity than the most
educated of man. What's more. others mearn from them. An old gentleman in
the church I pastored 20 years ago once told me after a message in which I
declared the gift of tongues to have ceased,"Every time you preach the
gospel, you speak in a tongue unknown to this world - and it is necessary
that someone interpret for them." I once read a statement that I thought
quite good, though I cannot remember who said it, "Every church of the Lord
Jesus is charsimatic." In truth, ONLY the church of the Lord Jesus is
charismatic, for everything she does, she does by the gracious gifts of the
Holy Spirit.
All fo this brings me to what I beleive is an important question which I
have never really sought out. What is the difference between the ministry
of the Holy Spirit in the NC as opposed to the OC.
I look forward to an amicable discussion on this.
Joe T
PS...no time to proof read...gotta get.
----- Original Message -----
From: "B&G Cauley" <rgcauley@...>
To: <soundofgrace@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] CJ Mahaney Speaking in New England. - Moe
> Moe,
> I went from C.J. Mahaney's 'biographical sketch' to 'about us' to
> 'statement
> of faith' scrooled down to 'Empowerment by the Spirit' clicked on 'this
> annotation' that brought up a pdf file in which I have extracted the
> following excerpts:
>
> "While all genuine believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at conversion,
> the New Testament indicates the importance of an ongoing, empowering work
> of
> the Spirit subsequent to conversion as well. Being indwelt by the Spirit
> and
> being filled with the Spirit are theologically distinct experiences."
>
> "All the gifts of the Holy Spirit at work in the church of the first
> century
> are available today, are vital for the mission of the church, and are to
> be
> earnestly desired and practiced."
>
> "Let it first be said that the Sovereign Grace Ministries leadership
> team has not moved from its understanding of the work of the
> Spirit, an understanding that could be classified as a traditional
> charismatic/Pentecostal view."
>
> "For a number who share our commitment to the centrality of the
> gospel, our Reformed soteriology, our pursuit of the active presence
> of God, and our belief in ongoing ministry of the Spirit (including
> the continuation of spiritual gifts),"
> ------------------------
> Since I am a former Pentecostal/Charismatic, and I belong to another group
> called ExCharisma--I may be in the wrong place here as a member of this
> forum.
> My question is: do you and others on this list support, defend and promote
> Pentecostal/Charismatic theology?
>
> Bob C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ic2@...>
> To: <soundofgrace@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:53 PM
> Subject: [soundofgrace] CJ Mahaney Speaking in New England. - Moe
>
>
>> Dear Sounders,
>>
>> Please consider the following if you happen to be in my neck of the woods
> this coming Feb 6th for CJ Mahaney's visit with us. CJ was a recent
> speaker
> at the Bethlehem's Pastor's Conference and will be speaking at King of
> Grace
> Church, Methuen MA on Sunday, February 6th, 10:30 am.
>>
>> King of Grace meets at the Methuen YMCA, 129 Haverhill Street, Methuen,
> MA. Rte. 93, Exit 46 east on Rte. 110 1/2 mile.
>>
>> CJ is the leader of Sovereign Grace Ministries and the founding pastor at
> Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, MD. He is also the author of "The
> Cross Centered Life", "Sex, Romance and the Glory of God", "Christ Our
> Mediator: Finding our Passion in the Cross" and a contributor to "Dear
> Timothy, Letters on Pastoral Ministry". Check out a bio of CJ at
> http://www.sovgracemin.org/about/bio/cjmahaney.html
>>
>> You can get more info by contacting King of Grace Church at
> office@... or checking out www.kingofgrace.org
>>
>> Hope you can make it,
>>
>> Moe
>>
>> --
>> Read the Sound of Grace pages at
>> http://www.soundofgrace.com
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Read the Sound of Grace pages at
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>