The Sound of Grace chat list is pretty informal and takes in a much wider
spectrum than most sovereign grace ministries. One of its trade marks is a
willingness to discuss anything that sincere Calvinists believe. We rarely
take an absolute "position" and refuse to look any further. We can agree to
disagree with what we consider to be true Calvinists. We stopped the
discussion with Preterits and also with hyper/hyper Calvinism.

I personally cannot accept the Charismatic interpretation of the ministry of
the Holy Spirit nor can I accept a lot of the things that are written by
some people who oppose them altogether. I know personally and in a very deep
way, some 100% Calvinists that claim to have spoken in tongues and I have
not the slightest reason to doubt either them or their experience. I see no
necessity for the so-called gifts being in the church today but I also do
not see that "the Bible teaches the gifts forever ceased with the full canon
of Scripture being given." If God wants to re-institute the gifts, so be it.

Mr. Terrel has surely raised the subject in a very gracious manner that
invites open discussion. I agree with his concern as to where it will lead
him in his personal life and among his friends. I remember reading
Boettner's book on Predestination. Dr. Boettner mailed me a copy of his book
on Post-millennium and I waited five years to read it. At that time I would
have rather died than become a post-mil, and since I had the greatest of
respect for Dr. Boettner's writing, I was literally scared to read his book.

If the Bible teaches that we should speak in tongues, or even that this gift
would help us in our ministry as preachers, then it would seem we are duty
bound to start seeking that gift.

So far I have been greatly impressed with the experience of a few, very few,
charismatics but have not yet been convinced by exegesis of Scriopture. I
can, and do, respect the experience of some but refuse to be led to seeking
something on the basis of some one's testimony. I feel justified in saying,
"lead me with Scripture."

Here are a few comments on Joe's post.

> If I ever hear of anyone who preaches the gospel of God's free and
> sovereign grace and also practices these gifts, I will give it another
> look."

I believe it is a legitimate question to ask why the Spirit of TRUTH, that
charaasmatics claim to have in a way and to a degree that we do not have,
know so very little about the theology of the Doctrines of Grace.

> Well, here we have a group which presents themselves as both sovereign
grace
> and charismatic.  I have known about them for a few years, but have not
> actually looked deeply into what they say and do.     snip   snip

> > 1. Peter said that all who repent and are baptized for the remission of
sins
> do receive the gift of the Spirit; so we must conclude that all those that
> repent and are baptized for the remission of sins actually do have th
Spirit
> of God in all His NC presence and power.

Does "do have th Spirit of God in ALL His NC presence and power" necesarily
follow your first statement????
>
> 2. It does appear that the use of the "miracle gifts" did wane even during
> the time of the apostles, and Paul. himself, urged a zeal for the better
> gifts which involve the edifying of the church.  These gifts are not as
> "flashy" as tongues and healing, but are much more useful.

Is "does APPEAR" the grounds for an argument?

> 3. It would appear from the transition of 1 Cor. 12 to 1 Cor. 13 that we
> need not emphasize gifts at all, that is, by seeking them out and
> puposefully putting them into action, for living by the principle of love
> toward one another will cause these gifts to appear when and if they are
> useful to the assembly.

Agreed, but does it really prove anything.

> 4. That being said, there is no compelling Scriptural  argument tot he
> effectt hat the "miracle gifts" have utterly ceased and shall never
appear.

Right conclusion.

>
> 5. The church got along fine without the "miralce gifts" for hundreds of
> years.

Could it have gotten along twice as well with the gifts?

snip   snip

> All of this brings me to what I beleive is an important question which I
> have never really sought out.  What is the difference between the ministry
> of the Holy Spirit in the NC as opposed to the OC.

This has been touched on in the chat room but has never discussed in depth.
That is definately a NCT topic. Like you, I look forward to such a
discussion.

JGR