Good stuff Bob, thanks! B&G Cauley <rgcauley@...> wrote:Since I'm new to NCT, and I'm just learning, I find it interesting that Pentecostal/Charismatic doctrine could be condoned. I'll admit I'm bias, having been a former Charismatic, and having attended a Pentecostal Bible college for several years. I am now a "partial cessationist," I believe that God still does miracles and He still heals physically by the prayer of faith; however, I do not believe in "faith healers" and I believe the office of "Apostle" has ceased along with the revelational and sign gifts (i.e. tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy etc.) in the sense that God now guides his church by His inspired Word. I believe that the sign gifts ceased, and are not now applicable for several reasons, below are just a few: 1. We have the completed revelation and standard for the church in the Inspired canonical "Word." a. Now there is no need for "revelational" guidance. 2. Because tongues1 were a sign to unbelievers (especially Jews). a. A covenant sign to the Jews, marking the end of the Old Covenant and specifically to the generation that God held accountable for "the guilt of all righteous blood shed on earth, from righteous Abel ... to Zechariah (Mt 23:35)." Jesus said His judgment would fall on that generation (verse 36 and 24:34), which it did. The sign of tongues-speaking was in one respect an eschatological event, prophetically proclaiming the impending judgement coming in 70 A.D. 3. Another purpose of the gift of tongues was to reveal that salvation was to include the Gentiles, Acts 10. 4. The gifts were conveyed by the Apostles. The following extraction came from an excellent article at http://www.diakrisis.org/tongues.htm from under the Qualifications of an Apostle heading. "Once the N.T. canon was completed and all the Apostles were dead, the gifts which served for a sign and for revelation were finished. There was no further need for piecemeal prophetic revelation to be given now that God's Word was complete. There was no further need for signs to be given to Israel for authenticating or judicial reasons, as that national state had been wound up by the Lord. Neither was there anyone available to impart or distribute these gifts, because the Apostolate was no longer in existence." I am a member of a group called ExCharisma, which is a "recovery" group consisting of former Pentecostal/Charismatics who feel that they were misled and in fact were subject to 'spiritual abuse' and are now in need of spiritual rehabilitation. Their testimonies consistently reveal from their own voluntary admissions that they faked gifts, prophesies, healings etc. Below are some excerpts from some recent posts by these former Charismatics: Once I was convinced that tongues in the modern church couldn't be the gift described in the New Testament, so much of the Charismatic belief system falls apart. For a start, what I believed was communication with God was most likely nonsense. From that came the realization that I was in error. From that came the knowledge that the people teaching me were not teaching truth, which led me to realize these people were not led by the Holy Spirit. I could go on and on. ------------------ If tongues and prophecy are revelational gifts, and if they have not ceased, then the Bible is still being written! Thus the threat to the fundamentals of the Christian faith, as we clearly see in Mormonism. By the way, the Mormons spoke in tongues almost a century before the Pentecostals did. The Mormons took the extrabiblical revelation to its conclusion, with the Book of Mormon, which they consider more inspired than the Bible. All in all, I consider Pentecostal/Charismatic folks my brothers and sisters in the Lord (as I do my Roman Catholic relatives), if they believe solely on the Lord Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, I have little sympathy for their pneumatology. Bob C. -- Read the Sound of Grace pages at http://www.soundofgrace.com To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... To view our online archive go to our web page at http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' -- Read the Sound of Grace pages at http://www.soundofgrace.com To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... To view our online archive go to our web page at http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace