Brethren, I hereby solemnly swear that I will not enter in to a tedious, contentious debate with any of you. If Romans 7 holds true than by this evening we should be in a fierce battle Chad :-). The harder I try, the worse I get. Is it a true statement to say that 'as' is sometimes 'is'. 'As' is sometimes less than 'is'. I would like to offer a formal debating challenge to any Sounder who is ready for a good fight and confident of their reasoning and debating skills to attempt to refute the following... If we cannot agree what 'as' is, it is as if 'as' is as 'as' and 'as' is as 'is', and also that 'is' is as 'is' and 'is' is as 'as', and if 'as' is as 'as' and 'is', and 'is' is as 'is' and 'as' than 'is' is 'as' and 'as' is 'is'. And to finalize my point I would honestly contend that at times 'as' IS 'as' and at others 'as' IS 'is'. Furthermore at times 'is' is 'is' and 'is' is 'as'. The final determination depends on the context. That should settle the debate :-). Mike M. PA. On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:58:05 -0700 "Steve Fuchs" <SteveF_MS@...> writes: > From: William and Dorothy Oosterman > again, to "treat as" is not the same as "is". I may as a matter of > discipline turn away from my child for a period of time and "treat > him as > if" he was not mine. Is he still my child? Yes. of course. Treat as > is not > IS. > > William, the thing you are inserting is the word 'if', but it's not > there. > > Consider: > Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down > out of > heaven from God, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband. > (Are we a bride, or just dressed like one?) > > Mat 14:5 And when he desired to put him to death, he feared the > multitude > because they counted him AS a prophet. (did they believe he WAS one, > or that > he was just acting?) > > And Mat 24:14 And this gospel kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the > world > AS a witness to all nations (Is it a real witness to all, or just > masquerading?) > > And Mar 10:45 For even the son of man did not come to be served, but > to > serve and to give His life AS a ransom for many (IS it a ransom, or > just a > fake?) > > And Mar 12:23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, > whose > wife will she be? For the seven had her AS a wife. (Was she > married to all > of them, or just pretending?) > > And John 1:7 This one came AS a witness, to bear witnesses > concerning the > Light, so that all might believe through him. (Was he a witness, or > merely > acting like one?) > > And John 12:46 I have come AS a light into the world, so that > whoever > believes on me should not remain in darkness. (Is he light to us, > or just > pretending to be?) > > William, what's missing in all these examples is the 'IF' you've > inserted in > Mat 18, and it's not there either. > > Mat 18:17 ...let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. > > The verse doesn't even directly address how you treat him. NIV is > the only > translation to insert that. The others all simply say 'let him be > to you'. > 'Let him be to you' means 'consider him to be' - as far as you can > know. > Based on the evidence, you're no longer to consider him a brother - > until > his repentance proves otherwise. > > William, you've inserted an 'as IF' and attached it to 'treat' in > place of > 'let him be to you'. > If someone says; 'let her be to you as a wife', they mean let her be > your > wife. Make it real. > If they say; 'let him be to you as a son', they mean make him a > genuine son. > Make it real. > If they say; 'let him be to you as a boss', they mean work for him > as an > employee. Make it real. > If they say; 'let Him be to you as a God', they mean believe Him to > be your > creator. > > If they inserted an 'as IF' in any of these, the meanings change the > way you > want Mat 18 to change. > > But let's do everyone else a favor and drop it. > I'll do my best to refrain from responding again on this one. > > Steve > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chad Richard Bresson" <breusswane@...> > To: <soundofgrace@...> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] as = is > > > > Steve Fuchs wrote: > > >AS and IS are not opposing descriptors. > > > > Revelation 21:3. > > > > :-) > > > > Chad Bresson > > Xenia, OH > > > > -- > > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > > > > > > > > > > -- > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > > > > >