Keep it up guys! I think we might be beginning to make some sense here!

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "H Dorrington" <hjdinfl@...>
To: <soundofgrace@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] John 8:11 and Condemn


> The phrase that the people began to play the harlot with the daughters 
> Moab
> is sexual in nature and describes a relation of adultery. They were 
> unfaithful.
>
> Psalm 106:30 & 31 offer an interesting view of the events which I would 
> view
> as a narrative when compared to Numbers 24.
>
> "(which is always contextualized in the OT by Israel's whoring with other 
> nations)"
> Is that not adultery?
>
> Harry
>
> Chad Richard Bresson <breusswane@...> wrote:
>> Your assumption is that the instructions in Dt 13 &17 that is specific 
>> for
>> those who are worshipping false gods is >applicable to those caught in 
>> the
>> act of adultery as well as all capital punishment cases yet you won't 
>> give
>> the same value to >Leviticus 24:13 & 14 since the instruction does not
>> comply with your view.
>
> Not because "it does not comply with my view" but because one is narrative
> (a story about a woman and her son) and the other is precept (thou shalt
> not). A basic rule of hermeneutics is not to confuse genre.
>
>> In a similar fashion you found fault with the Numbers passage that had 
>> the
>> adulterous couple killed not by stones but by a >sword or spear, yet even
>> a third manner of punishment by drinking bitter waters is given in
>> Scripture.
>
> Again, you are, IMHO, confusing genre and not following a basic rule of
> hermeneutics. The Numbers passage is a narrative which makes no judgment
> about the adultery, but does about the jealousy (which is always
> contextualized in the OT by Israel's whoring with other nations). God
> himself, in his speaking with Moses, draws a one-to-one correlation 
> between
> jealousy and Phinehas actions. You are drawing an inference that may or 
> may
> not be there because the text does not explicitly tell us that Phinehas
> acted as an executioner for adultery. It *does* say Phinehas was jealous
> for God... and that is how we must interpret the event. Now, if you want 
> to
> parallel the *jealousy* in the passage with capital actions against 
> adultery
> you might be making an only slightly better case hermeneutically.
>
> But then again, this *jealousy* is directly correlative to whoring with a
> pagan nation, IMHO, and not necessarily adultery because the entire 
> passage
> is not about adultery but about Israel's prostituting itself with 
> Gentiles.
> To focus on the adultery is to miss Moses' point entirely.
>
> Chad Richard Bresson
> Xenia, OH
> http://breusswane.blogspot.com/
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "H Dorrington"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] John 8:11 and Condemn
>
>
>>
>> In a similar fashion you found fault with the Numbers passage that had 
>> the
>> adulterous couple killed not by stones but by a sword or spear, yet even 
>> a
>> third manner of punishment by drinking bitter waters is given in
>> Scripture. Your jot and tittle view of only accepting one means of
>> execution as instruction and dismissing the others as narrative accounts
>> seems contrary to the teaching that all scripture is profitable for
>> reproof and correction and if God allows these other means of correction
>> and blesses them (Num 24) who am I to find fault with Him?
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> "Chad R. Bresson"
> wrote:
>>>H Dorrington wrote:
>>>Do you view it as a paraphrased handed down narrative?
>>
>> If you're asking whether or not I believe Genesis 12:1-3 is a sum total 
>> of
>> every single word God used in his call to Abraham, no. I believe what we
>> have is a God-breathed inspired narrative of what God wanted us to know
>> about his call to Abraham.
>>
>> But I believe it was prescriptive to Abraham and Abraham alone. We are 
>> not
>> called to leave our countries (although we are called to leave the 
>> kingdom
>> of darkness) as he was. You've attempted to show that the Lev. 24
>> narrative about a woman and her son somehow negates the very prescriptive
>> Deut. passages on witnesses and capital punishment. I grant that to Moses
>> and the congregation it was prescriptive in the sense they couldn't
>> disobey it. But as narrative it cannot define for us the norm for God's
>> mandate on the witnesses being the first to cast stones. Even if I grant
>> the prescription within the narrative is *different* (I don't.. I believe
>> Moses is only telling us about what happened with the woman and son what
>> God wanted us to know about the woman and the son), it would be God's
>> perogative to "deviate* from the norm of Deut. 13 & 17 (which is *why*
>> Carson would include the Lev. passage with the Deut. passages in his
>> apologetic. Leviticus is complementary, not contradictory).
>>
>>
>> Chad Richard Bresson
>> Xenia, OH
>> http://breusswane.blogspot.com/
>>
>> --
>> Read the Sound of Grace pages at
>> http://www.soundofgrace.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
>> soundofgrace-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> To view our online archive go to our web page at
>> http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>> --
>> Read the Sound of Grace pages at
>> http://www.soundofgrace.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
>> soundofgrace-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> To view our online archive go to our web page at
>> http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Read the Sound of Grace pages at
> http://www.soundofgrace.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: 
> soundofgrace-unsubscribe@...
>
> To view our online archive go to our web page at
> http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> --
> Read the Sound of Grace pages at
> http://www.soundofgrace.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: 
> soundofgrace-unsubscribe@...
>
> To view our online archive go to our web page at
> http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace
>
>
>