Joseph,
Thanks for your thoughts. My point (even on the RBDL) wasn't to hammer the
RB's, esp. Renihan. He's forgotten more Baptist history than I know. The
positive I take from this is that this is an instance in Reformed Baptist
history where we have evidence that not all toed the strict covenantalism
contained in the 1689. Not all about the NCT is *novel* (to use their
word), even in Puritan circles.
I agree with Terry's assessment of the 1646. It is a remarkable profession
of Christology that is lacking in its sibling confessions. That's one of
the reasons why I chose to incorporate the 1646 into my recently finished
confession of faith for my ordination. If NCT, were ever to encode its
thought into a confession, the 1646 would be a great template to build from,
IMHO.
--
Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
Clearcreek Chapel
Springboro, OH
http://breusswane.blogspot.com
On 12/12/05, Joseph Krygier <pasjk@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Chad,
> I thought you might respond and along the reasoning that you have
> provided. I would agree
> Not surprised about the silence either.
> Sometimes I wonder if strict sabbatarian etc. 1689' er's shouldn't
> modify their baptism position to an either - or, dunk or sprinkle and
> call themselves baptisterians or presbybaptists and forget about a
> specifically " Baptist" covenantal view.
> There are and have been some wonderful men in those circles and at
> least the Founders in SBC will accept association with 1644 and 1646 as
> being founder's Friendly churches.
> At least the cause for reformation among Baptists is growing (slowly),
> especially when we see, for example, the number of minister search
> listings from Founders for new grads looking for Doctrines of Grace
> churches and no where to serve and conferences that have a definite
> Doctrines of Grace orientation are also becoming more numerous.
> (Bunyan, Piper, Founders, Toledo, PCRT, Seaside etc.).
> pasjk@...
> Joe Krygier
> On Dec 12, 2005, at 10:05 AM, Chad Richard Bresson wrote:
>
> > Funny you should bring this up. Yes, I've responded very briefly to
> > the
> > article on the Reformed Baptist Discussion List. And the response to
> > my
> > response was deafening silence.
> >
> > I'll pull up my post if I can find it. The gist of my thoughts were
> > that
> > Renihan fails to engage the 1646 (First) London Baptist Confession of
> > Faith. I did a scan comparing the 1644 and the 1646 and conveniently
> > ignored by the RB's is that, for reasons still unknown to me, the
> > writers of
> > the 1646 changed the word "covenant" in the 1644 to "promise" in 1646.
> > I've
> > been around the blocks a few times with NCT to know full well the
> > implications... the writers of the 1646 broadened their base slightly
> > to
> > include those who could not affirm covenants in Genesis 1-3.
> > So, while the 1689 goes back to the original language of the 1644 (in
> > plagiarizing the Westminster), the existence of the 1646 is a slight
> > hiccup
> > in Renihan's assertion.
> >
> > For the record, Renihan may be right. But the RB's (seemingly) have
> > been
> > unwilling to admit that the 1646 represented a concession on the part
> > of the
> > 1644 writers that the 1689 crowd was unwilling to make. In fact, when
> > I
> > posed the question as to whether the 1689ers would even admit to the
> > veracity of the 1646, the question went unanswered.
> >
> > The issue with Renihan is that NCTers should not be able to claim the
> > 1646
> > as their own. But he has yet to answer *why* NCTers couldn't claim it
> > when
> > it is quite obvious that some who would be pre-NCTers forced the
> > framers of
> > the 1644 to drop the word covenant in the 1646. At the very least, the
> > change from "covenant" to "promise" is very, very good evidence that
> > NCT in
> > thought existed long before it was ever called NCT. The RB's cannot
> > account
> > for such a significant change in language.
> >
> > Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
> > Clearcreek Chapel
> > Springboro, OH
> > http://breusswane.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/12/05, Joseph Krygier <pasjk@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Has anybody read or responded to this article.
> >> These items are listed in the current issue of the Spurgeon Baptist
> >> Association out of Kansas
> >>
> >> Confessing the Faith in 1644 & 1689, by Dr. Jim Renihan; This 11 page
> >> single spaced article shows how these two confessions and the signers
> >> held the same historic Baptist covenant view of the law. Excellent
> >> research. The article is accessible at:
> >> www.reformedbaptistinstitute.org/irbs/5_articles.htm.
> >>
> >> Historic Baptist New Covenant Theological Position Free CD (MP3)
> >> For a free CD (MP3) containing 9 sermons delineating the historic
> >> Baptist New Covenant Theological position in contrast to the "New"
> >> New Covenant Theology, e-mail us at SmiEdward@....
> >> The
> >> sermons included are: 1. "The New Covenant" ~ Jim Renihan 2.
> >> "Baptism" ~ Fred Malone 3. "The Hermeneutics of Baptist Covenant
> >> Theology" ~ Fred Malone 4. "New Covenant Theology" ~ Jim Renihan 5.
> >> "The Founders of the SBC & Covenant Theology" ~ Fred Malone 6.
> >> "Election & Covenant Theology" ~ Jim Renihan 7. "Dispensationalism" ~
> >> Steve Garrick 8. "Our Covenant-Keeping God" ~ Jim Renihan 9. a.
> >> "Questions & Answers" ~ Larry Vincent, Moderator b. "Devotional:
> >> Psalm
> >> 32" ~ Chris Marley c. "Work in Indonesia" ~ Blane Mays
> >>
> >> Resting in Him,
> >> Joe Krygier
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Read the Sound of Grace pages at
> >> http://www.soundofgrace.com
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
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>
>
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>
--
Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
Clearcreek Chapel
Springboro, OH
http://breusswane.blogspot.com
--
Read the Sound of Grace pages at
http://www.soundofgrace.com
To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@...
To view our online archive go to our web page at
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