Never said that Hebrews was written by or to Timothy. But I do hold to harmony in the Scripture. Hebrews was written to the Hebrew Christians and Christians in general to let them know the superiority of Christ and the New Covenant to the Old Covenant to help protect them and us from those who want to couple the two covenants together. "As for Timothy... that, IMHO, is a gross miscarriage of the text. It was Paul who passed the entrustment on to Timothy" I never said that Paul didn't pass entrustments on to Timothy but who laid the foundation? Who did the prep work for Paul? Mom and Grandma of course as Scripture tells us! Is that a gross miscarriage of the text? Not when the text says: "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom[a] you learned it (Footnotes: a 2 Timothy 3:14 The Greek for whom is plural (Mom and Grandma)) "and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." Paul honors these two women in the text as he has honored other women that he has worked side by side with him in the Gospel. The position of elder is a humble position of servitude not a hierarchy of glory. Harry Chad Richard Bresson <breusswane@...> wrote: Um... nowhere does it say that Hebrews 13 was written to Timothy. It was written to a congregation that was to *obey* their ruling elder/shepherd/leaders. As for Timothy... that, IMHO, is a gross miscarriage of the text. It was Paul who passed the entrustment on to Timothy. Just because mom and grandma *can teach*, it does not automatically follow that they have the gift of teaching. That anyone can teach does not negate the hierarchy present in the text. Chad On 2/28/06, H Dorrington wrote: > > "Leader is defined in verse 7 as those who spoke the word of God to you." > Yes! And who was that to Timothy? Mom and Grandma. > > Does the closing prayer/benediction of the epistle really tell us that the > Great Shepard alone has been the context of the chapter? Or is He the > underlying cause for the behavior? Is He the brethern or the cause of the > brethern? Is He the stranger now appearing or the reason to be kind to > strangers? The prisnor...the married...the strange teacher? This is what I > spoke of earlier about adding an opinion to the text. > > Still, He alone is our High Priest and we are His Royal > Priesthood. Sonship > > Harry > > Chad Richard Bresson wrote: > >Leader here is translated from Hegeomai which means "to lead." > > Which is *why* grammar alone will never suffice in correct interpretation. > Leader is defined in verse 7 as those who spoke the word of God to you. > "Keeping watch over your souls" is shepherd language. The fact that the > writer references "the great shepherd" in verse 20 tells us that > "shepherd" (pastor/elder) has been the context of the entire chapter. > > -- > Pastor Chad Richard Bresson > Clearcreek Chapel > Springboro, OH > http://breusswane.blogspot.com > > > On 2/28/06, H Dorrington wrote: > > > > Is your mention of Hebrews 13 a reference to the word leaders in verse > 17? > > > > I don't see the NASB ever translating it as elder so no elder and laity > > distinction found here. > > > > Harry > > > > Chad Richard Bresson > wrote: > > Elders are to rule, but not domineer (the actual meaning of 1 Pet. 5). > > Implicit to "rule" (and the obedience required of the congregation to > the > > elder in Heb. 13) is a distinction between elders and laity. > > > > -- > > Pastor Chad Richard Bresson > > Clearcreek Chapel > > Springboro, OH > > http://breusswane.blogspot.com > > > > > > On 2/28/06, H Dorrington wrote: > > > > > > "The Bible teaches that every child of God is a priest and there is > but > > > one high priest, the son of God. Every person on earth who has been > > called > > > from darkness into light, every one who has laid hold on the mercy of > > God. > > > "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a dedicated nation, > and > > a > > > people claimed by God for his own, to proclaim the triumphs of him who > > has > > > called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. You are now the > > people > > > of God, who once were not his people; outside his mercy once, you have > > now > > > received his mercy" (I Peter 2:9,10). The word "people" is a > translation > > of > > > "laos" from which we get "laity" All of God's laity are priests. The > > royal priesthood is composed entirely of the laity of God. Let us go one > step further: God's laity is His clergy. The word "clergy" is from "kleros" > > which means "heritage." This is the word used in I Peter 5:3 where the > elders, or bishops, are instructed not to lord it over God's heritage. The > heritage is equated with the flock of God. The word of God knows nothing of a clergyman or layman." > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Yahoo! Mail > > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > -- > > > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > > > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > > > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Brings words and photos together (easily) with > > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. > > -- > > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > > > > > > > > > > -- > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > -- > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > > > > -- Pastor Chad Richard BressonClearcreek ChapelSpringboro, OH http://breusswane.blogspot.com -- Read the Sound of Grace pages at http://www.soundofgrace.com To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... To view our online archive go to our web page at http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. -- Read the Sound of Grace pages at http://www.soundofgrace.com To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... To view our online archive go to our web page at http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace