Now that sounds arminian.
  Our embracing the gospel is not of our doing.
  It is not our work of our faith but our faith which is demonstrated by our works.  We understand and therefore we are able to respond in good works. Our understanding is not the finale but the begining of the process of application.
   
  Harry

Chad Richard Bresson <breusswane@...> wrote:
  Which means if one embraces the gospel one will be a doer (there's no such 
thing as embracing the gospel and *not doing*). the imperative is never 
disconnected from the indicative.

Pastor Chad Richard Bresson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "H Dorrington" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons


> "what James strenuously opposes is any hearing of the word that does not 
> lead to doing."
>
> Amen! Yes hearing should progress to understanding which then should 
> yield application.
>
> "Those who are forgetful hearers, according to Moo, are those who "have 
> not
> truly embraced the gospel"." Wasn't it RC who said that most hearers are 
> forgetful, that is why we sell copies of the sessions on CD.
>
> Harry
>
> Chad Richard Bresson 
wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "H Dorrington"
>> the group James calls "my brethren
>
> "Brethren" in the NT was *always* a mixture of sheep and goats. The 
> warning
> to those in the audience that claimed to be sheep, looked like sheep, 
> talked
> like sheep, is to not be forgetful hearers... otherwise, their faith is
> dead. This is a warning against having a dead faith and and warning 
> against
> having a worthless religion. Their religion (those who look into a
> *natural* mirror and forget what they look like vs. 23, 24) is worthless
> (vs. 26) because their doing does not back up their hearing. (Blessed, 
> btw,
> is a soteriological/eschatological reality that describes those who are
> saved... it is not *blessed* vs. un-blessed Christians... there is no such
> thing as an unblessed Christian).
>
> And no, your view isn't novel. It's the one I grew up with. But it is
> Arminian/victorious-Christian-living/Keswickian/non-Lordship.
>
> Here's what Moo says about James 1:22ff (James, TNTC, pp. 81,82). Notice
> the words *potentially fatal*:
>
> "...it would be a fatal misunderstanding to think that James is against
> listening to the Word. But what James strenuously opposes is any hearing 
> of
> the word that does not lead to doing. With this emphasis James aligns
> himself with a widespread Jewish belief of his day. 'Not the expounding 
> [of
> the law] is the chief thing, but the doing [of it]' said a second-century
> rabbi (Simeon b. Gamaliel in Mishnah, Abot. 1:17). Paul reflects this 
> Jewish
> emphasis when he writes: 'it is not the hearers of the law who are 
> righteous
> before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified' (Rom. 2:13). 
> And
> James' concern is once again firmly in line with Jesus' teaching: 'Blessed
> are those who hear the word of God and keep it!' (Lk. 11:28). Jesus'
> preaching is filled with the overwhelming, amazing wonder of God's 
> sovereign
> grace reaching down to sinful men in the gospel. But equally prominent is
> Jesus' summons to radical obedience - an obedience that is the necessary
> human response to God's grace. Both factors, the gracious initiative of 
> God
> and the grateful response of man, are part and parcel of the gospel. The
> Word, through which we are born into new life (v. 18) and which becomes
> implanted in us (v. 21), is a Word that is to be put into practice. Those
> who fail to do the word, who are hearers only, are guilty of a dangerous 
> and
> potentially fatal self-delusion. If the gospel, by nature, contains both
> saving power and summons to obedience, those who relate to only one have 
> not
> truly embraced the gospel. That is why James can say that people who only
> hear the word are deceiving themselves. They think that they have a
> relationship with God because they regularly attend church, go to Bible
> studies or read the Bible. But if their listening is not accompanied by
> obedience, their true situation before God is far different. 'Obedience',
> says Calvin, 'is the mother of true knowledge of God.'" -- Douglas Moo,
> James (TNTC), pp. 81,82
>
>
>
> Those who are forgetful hearers, according to Moo, are those who "have not
> truly embraced the gospel".
>
>
>
> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
> Clearcreek Chapel
> Springboro, OH
> http://breusswane.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
>
>
>> No, the burden falls on you since you made the claim. I have already
>> demonstrated that the section that was included in the first chapter was
>> addressed to the group James calls "my brethren." James continues to 
>> write
>> regarding the testing of their faith. Your assertion is that he is 
>> writing
>> regarding the unsaved which of course have no faith. Later he instructs
>> them to ask of God if they lack wisdom, obviously not written to the
>> unsaved. Even later he writes to them about receiving the crown of life
>> which again is obviously written to the saved. Verse 16 again to "my
>> beloved brethren" which is not a term used to describe the unsaved even 
>> in
>> Covenant Theology. Even verse 1 of chapter 2 continues to be written to
>> "My brethren."
>>
>> Since you will undoubtedly call my view novel and request commentary to
>> support that my view is correct while demonstrating the error of your 
>> ways
>> I offer the following:
>> "(v. 25): Whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth
>> therein, etc. Observe here, [1.] The gospel is a law of liberty, or, as
>> Mr. Baxter expresses it, of liberation, giving us deliverance from the
>> Jewish law, and from sin and guilt, and wrath and death. The ceremonial
>> law was a yoke of bondage; the gospel of Christ is a law of liberty. [2.]
>> It is a perfect law; nothing can be added to it. [3.] In hearing the 
>> word,
>> we look into this perfect law; we consult it for counsel and direction; 
>> we
>> look into it, that we may thence take our measures. [4.] Then only do we
>> look into the law of liberty as we should when we continue therein -"when
>> we dwell in the study of it, till it turn to a spiritual life, engrafted
>> and digested in us'' (Baxter) -when we are not forgetful of it, but
>> practice it as our work and business, set it always before our eyes, and
>> make it the constant rule of our conversation and behaviour, and model 
>> the
>> temper of our minds by it." Matthew Henry
>>
>> You have failed to support your claim that the forgetful hearer is only
>> referring to the unsaved. Obviously it can't be done from the text.
>> Interpretation of the text leads to understanding, understanding leads to
>> application, being both hearers and then doers.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> Chad Richard Bresson
> wrote:
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "H Dorrington"
>>>I do agree that there is a discussion involving the unsaved that follows
>>>in
>>>the later chapters but you have failed to demonstrate that is the case in
>>>the first chapter. Since you have made the claim the burden of proof 
>>>falls
>>>on you.
>>
>> The burden of proof falls on you to prove the discussion switches
>> midstream,
>> which would be unlike any of the NT authors.
>>
>> Pastor Chad
		
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