No one said that embracing the gospel is of our doing. If one embraces the gospel one will be a doer. One cannot embrace the gospel and not do. Embracing the gospel is *always* followed by doing. If there is no doing, there was never an embracing (hearing) to begin with. Pastor Chad Richard Bresson Clearcreek Chapel Springboro, OH http://breusswane.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "H Dorrington" <hjdinfl@...> To: <soundofgrace@...> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons > Now that sounds arminian. > Our embracing the gospel is not of our doing. > It is not our work of our faith but our faith which is demonstrated by > our works. We understand and therefore we are able to respond in good > works. Our understanding is not the finale but the begining of the process > of application. > > Harry > > Chad Richard Bresson <breusswane@...> wrote: > Which means if one embraces the gospel one will be a doer (there's no > such > thing as embracing the gospel and *not doing*). the imperative is never > disconnected from the indicative. > > Pastor Chad Richard Bresson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "H Dorrington" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons > > >> "what James strenuously opposes is any hearing of the word that does not >> lead to doing." >> >> Amen! Yes hearing should progress to understanding which then should >> yield application. >> >> "Those who are forgetful hearers, according to Moo, are those who "have >> not >> truly embraced the gospel"." Wasn't it RC who said that most hearers are >> forgetful, that is why we sell copies of the sessions on CD. >> >> Harry >> >> Chad Richard Bresson > wrote: >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "H Dorrington" >>> the group James calls "my brethren >> >> "Brethren" in the NT was *always* a mixture of sheep and goats. The >> warning >> to those in the audience that claimed to be sheep, looked like sheep, >> talked >> like sheep, is to not be forgetful hearers... otherwise, their faith is >> dead. This is a warning against having a dead faith and and warning >> against >> having a worthless religion. Their religion (those who look into a >> *natural* mirror and forget what they look like vs. 23, 24) is worthless >> (vs. 26) because their doing does not back up their hearing. (Blessed, >> btw, >> is a soteriological/eschatological reality that describes those who are >> saved... it is not *blessed* vs. un-blessed Christians... there is no >> such >> thing as an unblessed Christian). >> >> And no, your view isn't novel. It's the one I grew up with. But it is >> Arminian/victorious-Christian-living/Keswickian/non-Lordship. >> >> Here's what Moo says about James 1:22ff (James, TNTC, pp. 81,82). Notice >> the words *potentially fatal*: >> >> "...it would be a fatal misunderstanding to think that James is against >> listening to the Word. But what James strenuously opposes is any hearing >> of >> the word that does not lead to doing. With this emphasis James aligns >> himself with a widespread Jewish belief of his day. 'Not the expounding >> [of >> the law] is the chief thing, but the doing [of it]' said a second-century >> rabbi (Simeon b. Gamaliel in Mishnah, Abot. 1:17). Paul reflects this >> Jewish >> emphasis when he writes: 'it is not the hearers of the law who are >> righteous >> before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified' (Rom. 2:13). >> And >> James' concern is once again firmly in line with Jesus' teaching: >> 'Blessed >> are those who hear the word of God and keep it!' (Lk. 11:28). Jesus' >> preaching is filled with the overwhelming, amazing wonder of God's >> sovereign >> grace reaching down to sinful men in the gospel. But equally prominent is >> Jesus' summons to radical obedience - an obedience that is the necessary >> human response to God's grace. Both factors, the gracious initiative of >> God >> and the grateful response of man, are part and parcel of the gospel. The >> Word, through which we are born into new life (v. 18) and which becomes >> implanted in us (v. 21), is a Word that is to be put into practice. Those >> who fail to do the word, who are hearers only, are guilty of a dangerous >> and >> potentially fatal self-delusion. If the gospel, by nature, contains both >> saving power and summons to obedience, those who relate to only one have >> not >> truly embraced the gospel. That is why James can say that people who only >> hear the word are deceiving themselves. They think that they have a >> relationship with God because they regularly attend church, go to Bible >> studies or read the Bible. But if their listening is not accompanied by >> obedience, their true situation before God is far different. 'Obedience', >> says Calvin, 'is the mother of true knowledge of God.'" -- Douglas Moo, >> James (TNTC), pp. 81,82 >> >> >> >> Those who are forgetful hearers, according to Moo, are those who "have >> not >> truly embraced the gospel". >> >> >> >> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson >> Clearcreek Chapel >> Springboro, OH >> http://breusswane.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 7:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons >> >> >>> No, the burden falls on you since you made the claim. I have already >>> demonstrated that the section that was included in the first chapter was >>> addressed to the group James calls "my brethren." James continues to >>> write >>> regarding the testing of their faith. Your assertion is that he is >>> writing >>> regarding the unsaved which of course have no faith. Later he instructs >>> them to ask of God if they lack wisdom, obviously not written to the >>> unsaved. Even later he writes to them about receiving the crown of life >>> which again is obviously written to the saved. Verse 16 again to "my >>> beloved brethren" which is not a term used to describe the unsaved even >>> in >>> Covenant Theology. Even verse 1 of chapter 2 continues to be written to >>> "My brethren." >>> >>> Since you will undoubtedly call my view novel and request commentary to >>> support that my view is correct while demonstrating the error of your >>> ways >>> I offer the following: >>> "(v. 25): Whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth >>> therein, etc. Observe here, [1.] The gospel is a law of liberty, or, as >>> Mr. Baxter expresses it, of liberation, giving us deliverance from the >>> Jewish law, and from sin and guilt, and wrath and death. The ceremonial >>> law was a yoke of bondage; the gospel of Christ is a law of liberty. >>> [2.] >>> It is a perfect law; nothing can be added to it. [3.] In hearing the >>> word, >>> we look into this perfect law; we consult it for counsel and direction; >>> we >>> look into it, that we may thence take our measures. [4.] Then only do we >>> look into the law of liberty as we should when we continue >>> therein -"when >>> we dwell in the study of it, till it turn to a spiritual life, engrafted >>> and digested in us'' (Baxter) -when we are not forgetful of it, but >>> practice it as our work and business, set it always before our eyes, and >>> make it the constant rule of our conversation and behaviour, and model >>> the >>> temper of our minds by it." Matthew Henry >>> >>> You have failed to support your claim that the forgetful hearer is only >>> referring to the unsaved. Obviously it can't be done from the text. >>> Interpretation of the text leads to understanding, understanding leads >>> to >>> application, being both hearers and then doers. >>> >>> Harry >>> >>> Chad Richard Bresson >> wrote: >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "H Dorrington" >>>>I do agree that there is a discussion involving the unsaved that follows >>>>in >>>>the later chapters but you have failed to demonstrate that is the case >>>>in >>>>the first chapter. Since you have made the claim the burden of proof >>>>falls >>>>on you. >>> >>> The burden of proof falls on you to prove the discussion switches >>> midstream, >>> which would be unlike any of the NT authors. >>> >>> Pastor Chad > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. 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