I agree with you Chad. I now know, post regeneration, that I was one of the elect. Before I new it I hated God, I shook my fist in His face. I lived, smelled and ate like a goat until God changed me in real time- space history- and made me a sheep. What God had purposed me to be because of Christ and in Christ came to BE in His good time for His purpose, for His pleasure unto the praise of His glorious grace. The warnings of James and Hebrews etc. are necessary because the wheat and the tares, the goats and the sheep will be next to each other until Christ does the final separating. We do not promote perfection in this life but we cannot promote nominalism as being normative or acceptable. The norms of the christian life at bottom line are expressed in the Beatitudes and the teaching immediately follows in the Sermon on the Mount. It is difficult NOT to see that all other NT teaching by the writers points and or reflects back to the teaching of a changed heart in the Sermon on the Mount. Warnings are necessary measure for us and for evangelism. Joe K. On Mar 28, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Chad Richard Bresson wrote: > Eph. 2:3 says those who have been quickened were "by nature children of > wrath". One cannot be both a sheep and "children of wrath", which is > precisely what Christ called the religious leaders in John 8:44. > > The elect/non-elect categories are eschatological and soteriological, > but > the text does not always account for those categories "phenomenally". > What > happens in time and space (what can be seen) is as much a part of the > text > as what happens in eternity (what cannot be seen). To force all of the > phenomenal language into the eternal categories is eisogesis, IMHO. > Phenomenally, the unsaved are *goats* until they become *sheep*, > regardless > of their election before time. To always speak of them as *sheep* is > to do > more than the text does in many places. > > -- > Pastor Chad Richard Bresson > Clearcreek Chapel > Springboro, OH > http://breusswane.blogspot.com > > > > On 3/28/06, H Dorrington <hjdinfl@...> wrote: >> >> What Scripture reference tells us that goats rather than lost sheep >> become >> sheep of the fold? >> >> Harry >> >> Chad Richard Bresson <breusswane@...> wrote: >> Lost sheep are present goats who will be future sheep. And in the >> case of >> the churches the NT writers are writing to, those future sheep that >> are >> present goats are professing Christians. >> >> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson >> Clearcreek Chapel >> Springboro, OH >> http://breusswane.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "H Dorrington" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons >> >> >>> "And it's not true that goats will always be goats." >>> >>> There are the sheep, the lost sheep, and goats. >>> This is why, for example, in Matt 15, our Lord replies to the >>> Canaanite woman that He was "sent only to the lost sheep of the >>> house of >>> Israel" >>> >>> Harry >>> >>> Chad Richard Bresson >> wrote: >>> It's not novel. It's historically reformed. Moo is merely an example >>> of >>> how most reformed commentaries handle Hebrews and James. >>> >>> And it's not true that goats will always be goats. Professing sheep >>> are >>> constantly being pressed to make sure that their profession is a real >> one. >>> >>> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson >>> Clearcreek Chapel >>> Springboro, OH >>> http://breusswane.blogspot.com >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "H Dorrington" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons >>> >>> >>>> Lol, that is what always puzzled me about this novel view. Goats >>>> will >>>> always be goats. The sheep are the chosen ones, some have realized >> their >>>> new birth and others will. No point in warning goats. >>>> >>>> Harry >>>> >>>> Steve Fuchs wrote: >>>> Chad, >>>> >>>> I'm just curious your thoughts. >>>> >>>> What's the point of warning goats? >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chad Richard Bresson" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:08 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons >>>> >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "H Dorrington" >>>>>> Oh yes, the passage that tell us that the goats make great >>>>>> teachers! >>>>>> Not. >>>>>> It is rather describing those who are spiritual "babes" in Christ >>>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> I disagree. In giving them the benefit of the doubt, he is still >> holding >>>>> out the possibility that they are in danger of neglecting their >>>>> salvation. >>>>> What looks like a babe in Christ, if it never grows, is an imposter >>>>> (Heb. >>>>> 6:6-8 - same thought, same context). If they stay "dull of hearing" >> will >>>>> "end up being burned" (Heb. 6:8). >>>>> >>>>> The contrasts of the warning passages are almost exclusively, >>>>> through >>>>> the >>>>> whole of the NT, between sheep and goats and almost never between >>>>> categories >>>>> of Christians. Those "categories" just don't exist. >>>>> >>>>> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and >>> 30+ >>> countries) for 2¢/min or less. >>> -- >>> Read the Sound of Grace pages at >>> http://www.soundofgrace.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: >>> soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> To view our online archive go to our web page at >>> http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Read the Sound of Grace pages at >> http://www.soundofgrace.com >> >> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: >> soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... >> >> To view our online archive go to our web page at >> http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using >> Yahoo! >> Messenger with Voice. >> -- >> Read the Sound of Grace pages at >> http://www.soundofgrace.com >> >> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: >> soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... >> >> To view our online archive go to our web page at >> http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace >> >> >> > > -- > Read the Sound of Grace pages at > http://www.soundofgrace.com > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > soundofgrace-unsubscribe@... > > To view our online archive go to our web page at > http://www.associate.com/groups/soundofgrace > >