Is it significant that the text says, "We were by NATURE" children of wrath?
Were we not, and are we not yet, those who by "nature" deserve wrath?  JGR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Richard Bresson" <breusswane@...>
To: <soundofgrace@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons


Eph. 2:3 says those who have been quickened were "by nature children of
wrath".  One cannot be both a sheep and "children of wrath", which is
precisely what Christ called the religious leaders in John 8:44.

The elect/non-elect categories are eschatological and soteriological, but
the text does not always account for those categories "phenomenally".  What
happens in time and space (what can be seen) is as much a part of the text
as what happens in eternity (what cannot be seen).  To force all of the
phenomenal language into the eternal categories is eisogesis, IMHO.
Phenomenally, the unsaved are *goats* until they become *sheep*, regardless
of their election before time.  To always speak of them as *sheep* is to do
more than the text does in many places.

--
Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
Clearcreek Chapel
Springboro, OH
http://breusswane.blogspot.com



On 3/28/06, H Dorrington <hjdinfl@...> wrote:
>
> What Scripture reference tells us that goats rather than lost sheep become
> sheep of the fold?
>
> Harry
>
> Chad Richard Bresson <breusswane@...> wrote:
> Lost sheep are present goats who will be future sheep. And in the case of
> the churches the NT writers are writing to, those future sheep that are
> present goats are professing Christians.
>
> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
> Clearcreek Chapel
> Springboro, OH
> http://breusswane.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "H Dorrington"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
>
>
> > "And it's not true that goats will always be goats."
> >
> > There are the sheep, the lost sheep, and goats.
> > This is why, for example, in Matt 15, our Lord replies to the
> > Canaanite woman that He was "sent only to the lost sheep of the house of
> > Israel"
> >
> > Harry
> >
> > Chad Richard Bresson
> wrote:
> > It's not novel. It's historically reformed. Moo is merely an example of
> > how most reformed commentaries handle Hebrews and James.
> >
> > And it's not true that goats will always be goats. Professing sheep are
> > constantly being pressed to make sure that their profession is a real
> one.
> >
> > Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
> > Clearcreek Chapel
> > Springboro, OH
> > http://breusswane.blogspot.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "H Dorrington"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
> >
> >
> >> Lol, that is what always puzzled me about this novel view. Goats will
> >> always be goats. The sheep are the chosen ones, some have realized
> their
> >> new birth and others will. No point in warning goats.
> >>
> >> Harry
> >>
> >> Steve Fuchs wrote:
> >> Chad,
> >>
> >> I'm just curious your thoughts.
> >>
> >> What's the point of warning goats?
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Chad Richard Bresson"
> >>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:08 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
> >>
> >>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "H Dorrington"
> >>> > Oh yes, the passage that tell us that the goats make great teachers!
> >>> > Not.
> >>> > It is rather describing those who are spiritual "babes" in Christ .
> >>>
> >>> I disagree. In giving them the benefit of the doubt, he is still
> holding
> >>> out the possibility that they are in danger of neglecting their
> >>> salvation.
> >>> What looks like a babe in Christ, if it never grows, is an imposter
> >>> (Heb.
> >>> 6:6-8 - same thought, same context). If they stay "dull of hearing"
> will
> >>> "end up being burned" (Heb. 6:8).
> >>>
> >>> The contrasts of the warning passages are almost exclusively, through
> >>> the
> >>> whole of the NT, between sheep and goats and almost never between
> >>> categories
> >>> of Christians. Those "categories" just don't exist.
> >>>
> >>> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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