Titus 3:2 reads:
3:2
to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men. Of course we as the lost sheep were deserving wrath but we were predestinated to glory by His grace. Because we were previously lost sheep it should remind us that we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us.
Our deeds never made us better than the goats, we deserve His wrath. Yet He chose us and set us apart unto His great salvation. We are His sheep. He called us and we heard His voice, the goats do not get called.
But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like *sheep,* but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
What Scripture reference tells us that goats rather than lost sheep become sheep of His fold?
Harry
Chad Richard Bresson <breusswane@...> wrote:
IMHO, "deserving of" doesn't change the significance of "of wrath". Paul
says the same thing in Titus 3:2 when he says "we ourselves *were* once"
before rattling off one of his lists describing goats, ending in "but
when... he saved us".
Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
----- Original Message -----
From: <24jreisinger26@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
> Is it significant that the text says, "We were by NATURE" children of
> wrath?
> Were we not, and are we not yet, those who by "nature" deserve wrath? JGR
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chad Richard Bresson"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
>
>
> Eph. 2:3 says those who have been quickened were "by nature children of
> wrath". One cannot be both a sheep and "children of wrath", which is
> precisely what Christ called the religious leaders in John 8:44.
>
> The elect/non-elect categories are eschatological and soteriological, but
> the text does not always account for those categories "phenomenally".
> What
> happens in time and space (what can be seen) is as much a part of the text
> as what happens in eternity (what cannot be seen). To force all of the
> phenomenal language into the eternal categories is eisogesis, IMHO.
> Phenomenally, the unsaved are *goats* until they become *sheep*,
> regardless
> of their election before time. To always speak of them as *sheep* is to
> do
> more than the text does in many places.
>
> --
> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
>
>
> On 3/28/06, H Dorrington wrote:
>>
>> What Scripture reference tells us that goats rather than lost sheep
>> become
>> sheep of the fold?
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> Chad Richard Bresson
wrote:
>> Lost sheep are present goats who will be future sheep. And in the case of
>> the churches the NT writers are writing to, those future sheep that are
>> present goats are professing Christians.
>>
>> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "H Dorrington"
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
>>
>>
>> > "And it's not true that goats will always be goats."
>> >
>> > There are the sheep, the lost sheep, and goats.
>> > This is why, for example, in Matt 15, our Lord replies to the
>> > Canaanite woman that He was "sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"
>> >
>> > Harry
>> >
>> > Chad Richard Bresson
>> wrote:
>> > It's not novel. It's historically reformed. Moo is merely an example of
>> > how most reformed commentaries handle Hebrews and James.
>> >
>> > And it's not true that goats will always be goats. Professing sheep are
>> > constantly being pressed to make sure that their profession is a real
>> one.
>> >
>> > Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "H Dorrington"
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:29 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
>> >
>> >
>> >> Lol, that is what always puzzled me about this novel view. Goats will
>> >> always be goats. The sheep are the chosen ones, some have realized
>> their new birth and others will. No point in warning goats.
>> >>
>> >> Harry
>> >>
>> >> Steve Fuchs wrote:
>> >> Chad,
>> >>
>> >> I'm just curious your thoughts.
>> >>
>> >> What's the point of warning goats?
>> >>
>> >> Sincerely,
>> >> Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Chad Richard Bresson"
>> >>
>> >> To:
>> >> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:08 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [soundofgrace] Acts 6 and deacons
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "H Dorrington"
>> >>> > Oh yes, the passage that tell us that the goats make great
>> >>> > teachers!
>> >>> > Not.
>> >>> > It is rather describing those who are spiritual "babes" in Christ .
>> >>>
>> >>> I disagree. In giving them the benefit of the doubt, he is still
>> holding
>> >>> out the possibility that they are in danger of neglecting their
>> >>> salvation.
>> >>> What looks like a babe in Christ, if it never grows, is an imposter
>> >>> (Heb.
>> >>> 6:6-8 - same thought, same context). If they stay "dull of hearing"
>> will
>> >>> "end up being burned" (Heb. 6:8).
>> >>>
>> >>> The contrasts of the warning passages are almost exclusively, through
>> >>> the
>> >>> whole of the NT, between sheep and goats and almost never between
>> >>> categories
>> >>> of Christians. Those "categories" just don't exist.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pastor Chad Richard Bresson
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