From: "H Dorrington" <hjdinfl@...>
snisp  snip

> Yes, as lost sheep we do still need the Savior. By nature we are sinfully
wicked yet we still were seperated unto Him by His grace.
>
>   Harry

        I may be wrong, but it seems to me that we are flirting with
hyper-Calvinism. We all seem to agree that just because I am elect does not
in any sense mean that I do not have to repent and believe in order to be
saved. However, it is not clear as to why that is essential. There seems to
be an intimation that I am actually a saved child of God simply because God
chose me in electing grace. Chosen to be saved and repenting and believing
and thus actually being saved is not the same thing. Election does not save
anyone. Election marks out some who are certain to be saved by believing the
Gospel.
        Because our Lord was chosen to be the Lamb of God and suffer for our
sins does not mean there must not be a day, hour, and specific place that he
must actually shed real blood. God's sovereign purposes and his actually
bringing those purposes to pass is not the same.  JGR